[Buda]

Hey @Buda,

OK a couple things....

1. I'm having a hard time figuring the perspective of the wedge tool in the first photo (left) below. In photos 2 & 3 (middle, right) I see your tool going in between the two phasers. There's a channel on one side of the tool that goes over the oil galley bolt (before closing up, make sure both bolts are tight- they tend to work themselves loose). What is the black in the first photo that says "Wedge tool"? Also, it's offcenter so at least, something isn't aligned.
To be clear, it's not really a "mechanic's tool". It is a plastic wedge designed to remove interior or exterior auto trim pieces. If you refer to MCM's Chrysler/VW 3.2 and 3.6 Rocker Arm Replacement Part 2 video, at the 13:00 mark, this is where he shows how the timing chain guide has a tendency to slide away from the cylinder head when inserting the timing chain wedge tool. He recommends to insert a wedge or pry bar in between the timing chain guide and the timing cover.

2. Bank 1 (the one you're working on ) is the most difficult one to get the tool to slide down and push against the chain guide/tensioner in order to get slack on the chain for some reason. What helps ALOT is when you're pushing down, have a crescent wrench on the far camshaft (Exhaust) and you can assist releasing tension on the chain which helps a lot in getting the wedge tool to slide down the full way. There's a video either Dave/MCM or JT where they show the process. I highly advise it. It makes a huge difference getting the tool down (without overforcing it). I'll try that. thanks

You'll see some videos where people take the phaser off without de-tensioning anything. To me, that's hard and even more so, unless I can get the tension released, I don't want to be in a position where the phaser is off and now I can't get it back on. No, I won't remove phaser without releasing tension.

One last thing... In photo3 I see you marked the slots already with a (red?) paint pen (and assume you have the lines or arrows on the cam phaser faces lined up) but I DON'T see your marks on the chain itself. It may just be the angle/lighting but the most important thing is the chain links are marked so you can put them back on the exact same teeth on the phasers.
I did put paint marks on the chain the first time but when I removed valve cover this time, I didn't see them. I assumed they wore off with the little that I drove around since then.


View attachment 228995

 

[Gary Kline]

Now, I'm diving back into the righ

Re: 1 OK, got it. You're talking wedge that holds the guide on the pin (yes, on Bank 1 the guide can move because the pin doesn't have a stop on it). All good.

Re: 2 Yes, use the crescent or similar wrench. That will solve the problem making the tool slide down on the guide much easier.

Re: 3 Good, de-tension first.

Re: 4 Note, paint pen marks are only good during the "session" you're working on. Once you start the car, they will never line up again. While the phasers line up and are "in sync" with each other (hence the arrows or lines will point to each other), there's no such alignment with the chain itself. The chain is an arbitrary length and will change each time the engine starts meaning each time you work on a head, you need to re-mark the chain.

 

[Gary Kline]

Here: Look at what JT is doing at 6:52 into this video when he briefly uses a wrench (can be cresent or open ended) on the camshaft to slightly move it. When doing this while inserting the special tool it takes a little tension off the guide allowing the tool to go in without over forcing You'll then feel the slack on the chain and can remove the phasers.

Remember before assembly to tighten the two oil galley bolts which can loosen over time.

 

[Buda]

Here: Look at what JT is doing at 6:52 into this video when he briefly uses a wrench (can be cresent or open ended) on the camshaft to slightly move it. When doing this while inserting the special tool it takes a little tension off the guide allowing the tool to go in without over forcing You'll then feel the slack on the chain and can remove the phasers.
BTW, I subscribe to the OMT channel. He removes a phaser before releasing the chain tension. I guess I misunderstood you to not do that. I have the plastic type tool, I wish I had one of the metal type.
Remember before assembly to tighten the two oil galley bolts which can loosen over time.

Wait a minute,

 

[Gary Kline]

Wait a minute,

1. The aluminum tool is more durable but both will do the job, don't sweat that.
2. Yes, the reason I sent you to the time index 6:52 is just to see how he uses the wrench on the cam. JT is a factory trained Mopar mechanic so he has tricks he uses because he works on dozens of these a week. Once you get a feel for it, the phaser (with proper manipulation of the chain and wrench) can actually be removed without the special tool but it's not for a first time use which is why I would recommend you stay with the phaser wedge/guide tool/wrench combination.

 

[Assi]

Hi,
1. The Motor City Mechanic shows on his youtube the tool to use for replacing the rocker arms (and camshafts). The tool that he shows is for the 3.6L (10200A, 10202A, 10369A). Is it the same tool for the 3.2L?

Amazon.com: Elf Bee 10200A, 10202A, 10369A Camshaft Phaser Timing Chain Tools Compatible with VW Chrysler Dodge Jeep Grand Cherokee Wrangler 3.6L : Automotive

Buy Elf Bee 10200A, 10202A, 10369A Camshaft Phaser Timing Chain Tools Compatible with VW Chrysler Dodge Jeep Grand Cherokee Wrangler 3.6L: Timing Belt Tools - Amazon.com ✓ FREE DELIVERY possible on eligible purchases

www.amazon.com

2. Do you recommend using the Mopar rocker arms and lifters (I saw here a discussion of other aftermarket improved parts)?

 

[Skidmark]

That amazon kit looks like a Chinese knock-off. Assuming the quality is okay, it should work for a 3.2L if it works for the 3.6L.

IMHO, you should stick with the genuine Mopar parts. Many horror stories from folks who used the discount stuff.

 

[Assi]

That amazon kit looks like a Chinese knock-off. Assuming the quality is okay, it should work for a 3.2L if it works for the 3.6L.

IMHO, you should stick with the genuine Mopar parts. Many horror stories from folks who used the discount stuff.

Thanks.
I put this Amazon tool, because this is the exact tool and brand that he showed on youbtube..

Regarding the rocker arms, are there any better ones than the Moper ones ? Or use the Mopar?

 

[Skidmark]

AFAIK, the genuine Mopar cam followers (aka 'rocker arms') are the only ones using the improved 'floating orbital pin' design. You can tell if you grab the ends of the pin between your thumb & forefinger. You should be able to rotate it. The older design had the pin staked in place.

 

[Assi]

AFAIK, the genuine Mopar cam followers (aka 'rocker arms') are the only ones using the improved 'floating orbital pin' design. You can tell if you grab the ends of the pin between your thumb & forefinger. You should be able to rotate it. The older design had the pin staked in place.

IDo you know if it is it the same serial (or is it new) 5184296AH ?

 

[Skidmark]

I think that's the right P/N (not sure). The design changed around 2018, so any 'old stock' should be long gone now, at least if you a buying from a reputable source of Mopar parts.

 

[Assi]

I think that's the right P/N (not sure). The design changed around 2018, so any 'old stock' should be long gone now, at least if you a buying from a reputable source of Mopar parts.

Thanks.

 

[Gary Kline]

Hey @Assi,

Most of the kits now are "universal" in that they include all the parts for the entire 3.6 and 3.2 line. Early 3.6's (Grand Cherokees, Wranglers, Chargers, Challengers etc.) had a slightly different configuration on the right bank. After 2012, all 3.6 and 3.2 use the same tools. You should be fine with any of these universal tool sets today. Just make sure you use the correct pieces as shown below in green bold for the Cherokee.

Phaser locks
10202A-R
10202A-L

Tensioner release tool
10200A-1 (All Left bank - 3.6 and 3.2)
10200A-2 (Right bank - early 3.6 (e.g. 2011, early 2012 etc.)
10369A (Right bank - later 3.6 (later 2012+) and all 3.2)

 

[Assi]

Hi.
I checked the rocker arm ticking today.
I listened, and it was clearly ticking on the right bank. I couldn't hear any ticking from the left bank (unless there were quiet ticking that were lost in the noise of the right bank??).
I opened the right bank (did not remove the camshafts, I just wanted to know which parts to order), and there were about 8 rocker arms that ticked when I shook them.
The camshafts looked fine, I ran my finger over the heels, and it felt OK (without removing them).
Then I thought that I should check the left side, since I was already there. It took me maybe 10 (or 30) minutes to open all - until I reached "the bolt". And here I am.

1. What do you think, what are the chances that the left bank is also damaged? Couldn't hear ticking, but in the right bank most of the rocker arms were damaged in both camshafts.
2. "The bolt" - is there any way to open it without the cutting that was suggested here? (I have an angle grinder, it might be too wild for this job. Maybe metal small saw?).

 

[Skidmark]

If you have 8 bad rockers on one bank, I say replace them all (and the lifters too) on both banks so you don't have to do this again soon.

As for 'the bolt', I leave that for someone more qualified, like @Gary Kline, to comment.

While you are in there, don't forget to check your oil galley bolts for tightness.

 

[Assi]

If you have 8 bad rockers on one bank, I say replace them all (and the lifters too) on both banks so you don't have to do this again soon.

As for 'the bolt', I leave that for someone more qualified, like @Gary Kline, to comment.

While you are in there, don't forget to check your oil galley bolts for tightness.

Where are the oil galley bolts ?

 

[Skidmark]

Just below the cam phasers:

They have a bad habit of coming loose & causing oil pressure issues.

 

[Flybynightcru]

If you have 8 bad rockers on one bank, I say replace them all (and the lifters too) on both banks so you don't have to do this again soon.

Even if there's only one bad, I would replace them all, since you've got it all apart anyway, might as well...😉😎

 

[Assi]

Even if there's only one bad, I would replace them all, since you've got it all apart anyway, might as well...😉😎

Yes, I will probably do both sides. But I thought about it, I got this Jeep about two years ago, there is a chance that the left bank was already replaced and this is why they behave differently. I will check it, after I handle "the bolt" 🙄

 

[Assi]

Another thing, the 2 solenoids on the right bank are wet from oil. I guess they are leaking (not 100% sure, might be from the valve cover, or the timing cover).
Is this the gasket, the inner circle ? I tried to pull it but it doesn't move. Or?