I was driving around town today and not really driving that hard and I checked the temperature of the transmission and it was 186 F. I have been keeping an eye on it and it usually stays around 165 up to 170 and today was not an extremely hot day here in Upstate SC--maybe mid-80s. It was city driving and some waiting at stop lights. The other day I left my TH just idling for about 45 minutes as my wife was doing some "quick" shopping at Wal-Mart and the transmission temperature remained at 165 and the coolant was no more than 200. Today the coolant was up to 208 F. Does anybody know when it is too hot--yeah, I know when it quits operating. But any actual facts on what the temperature is supposed to be when the transmission is operating normally?
ptram
I took my TH on some light four wheeling trails at Butcher Jones OHV area (Arizona) last Sunday. It was around 102°-103°F outside, I never saw the Tranni temp get over 178 on or off-road. I was in 4 low with the locker engaged for a good 2 hours or so.
The few days that it was pretty hot here, I noticed the electric fans kick in and make quite a bit of noise and cool the vehicle down rather quickly.
As an aside the TH did very well for the most part. I did find it's limitation as far as the approach angle goes. Put some good scrapes on the underneath of the facia.
The few days that it was pretty hot here, I noticed the electric fans kick in and make quite a bit of noise and cool the vehicle down rather quickly.
As an aside the TH did very well for the most part. I did find it's limitation as far as the approach angle goes. Put some good scrapes on the underneath of the facia.
The engine runs at about 195/200 degrees (normal)....fans will turn on at approximately 210 /220 degrees (once again normal ).....the transmission is cooled by the radiator (unless you have additional cooler /towing package...then you have the benefit of both coolers )....some cooling occurrs when fluid runs through the transmission cooler lines
up to the radiator /also through the transmission case/housing .....so normal temp is very dependent on operating conditions.....
to see temps in the 185/195/200 range is normal.....but that being said, HEAT is the main reason for transmission fluid breakdown (the cooler the better! )
up to the radiator /also through the transmission case/housing .....so normal temp is very dependent on operating conditions.....
to see temps in the 185/195/200 range is normal.....but that being said, HEAT is the main reason for transmission fluid breakdown (the cooler the better! )
One would think it's a GOOD thing to get the tranny up to an operating temperature that will allow any moisture to be gassed off out the vent with positive pressure..... running too cool will not do this...
A tranny running at 180F is NOT all that hot at all but just in good operating range. It will warm up in hot weather when a LOAD is on the vehicle. Climb some steep hills and the temps will go up... coast down the hill and the temps will decrease .... Work makes for heat. Just like your engine which will produce more heat in relation to the amount of power it's putting out, the tranny will heat up with amount of torque it's passing to the driveline....
The amount of cooling is related mostly to how much air is going through the coolers AND the surface areas of those coolers. This is why a "tow package" is often a very good thing. You get better tranny cooling along with bigger brakes. I, myself, think the KL NEEDS the bigger brakes since it has a tendency to roll-out rather than drop gears to use engine compression when slowing down....
YMMV
JMHO
A tranny running at 180F is NOT all that hot at all but just in good operating range. It will warm up in hot weather when a LOAD is on the vehicle. Climb some steep hills and the temps will go up... coast down the hill and the temps will decrease .... Work makes for heat. Just like your engine which will produce more heat in relation to the amount of power it's putting out, the tranny will heat up with amount of torque it's passing to the driveline....
The amount of cooling is related mostly to how much air is going through the coolers AND the surface areas of those coolers. This is why a "tow package" is often a very good thing. You get better tranny cooling along with bigger brakes. I, myself, think the KL NEEDS the bigger brakes since it has a tendency to roll-out rather than drop gears to use engine compression when slowing down....
YMMV
JMHO
I have a Limited with V-6 and tow package - and thus get extra transmission cooling on my car I understand. I have yet to do any towing. I recently had a check engine light --- just one time, and found at that time I had transmission temps in the 190-200 degree range. Since then I have been sensitive (too sensitive?) to my transmission temps and have frequently spotted them in the 190-200 range. 203 was highest.
1. If I am nervous about this, with the Cherokee's "sealed" transmission, how difficult and expensive is it to change my transmission fluid periodically? Perhaps when doing oil change?
2. Does fact that I had the AC on when ambient temps were in low 40s (to avoid foggy windshield) help explain why my transmission temps were "high"?
3. Any other thoughts?
Some have observed that being able to see transmission temps on our EVICs is a mixed blessing. Gives us something to worry about that we otherwise would have been blissfully ignorant about.
1. If I am nervous about this, with the Cherokee's "sealed" transmission, how difficult and expensive is it to change my transmission fluid periodically? Perhaps when doing oil change?
2. Does fact that I had the AC on when ambient temps were in low 40s (to avoid foggy windshield) help explain why my transmission temps were "high"?
3. Any other thoughts?
Some have observed that being able to see transmission temps on our EVICs is a mixed blessing. Gives us something to worry about that we otherwise would have been blissfully ignorant about.
pksurfish, I don't recall my transmission temperature going into the range that you mentioned even during the hottest days of summer in Phoenix (over 100 degrees). I think your transmission may be running hotter than normal. You should bring it to your dealer and have them check the transmission fluid level. Some owners have reported low fluid levels and make sure your cooling system is operating properly. Get this all documented even if they just check the fluid level and especially if they find it low which could indicate a leak or a low fill at the factory. It's really a shame that we can't check the transmission fluid level, color, and smell on a dipstick. The auto manufacturers want you to take it to the dealer for everything now a days.
How are you doing GAMTNANN? I love to read your embellishments on the forum. I wonder what Ol'Greg is up to these days with his new Toyota? It's nice to see that your replacement Cherokee is doing fine after all you went through.
Ole Greg is most likely under that tutu! LMFAO. Going from gas station to gas station filling that Toy up. Hoping that he doesn't hit someone and deploy the air bag. LOL....Hopefully all kidding aside he is doing fine. And yup the new 1 knock on wood is doing gr8t except of course for the windshield washer thangy. Glad to see you're doing well. Hope yopu had a good thanksgiving, and hope you have a fantastic Xmas and a Healthy New Year!
@pksurfish - AC on should not normally affect trans temp. I would run with temp displayed on EVIC for a while to log behavior over different conditions. If after warmup it consistently runs 190+ I'd have the dealer check fluid level and then drain some to observe its conditon. Hopefully the dealer will be cooperative. If you have a log and tell them many on this forum run ~165/170, maybe they'll work with you. It may cost you now but at least you'll have it recorded on a dealer service invoice and if the transmission has to be replaced in the future you should be able to get that money back.
I wonder how long it will be until Jeep drops the transmission temperature from the EVIC display (or hides it)! I think it is a case of TMI for most people.
A bunch of posts back, Jeepster mentioned a $100 ATF change. From what I understand, the ZF fluid costs an arm and a leg. Does anyone know what a fluid/filter change actually costs? I wouldn't be surprised if it runs into the hundreds of dollars from a dealer.
This is something I have done myself on my previous DD which I occasionally towed with. With the fluid level more difficult to check on our Jeeps (and other recent Chrysler vehicles - my '09 Challenger also has no dipstick) this makes it tough on the do-it-yourself-er. I think we have to get away from the concept of the dipstick/fill tube and remember manual transmissions where you had to check the level through the fill hole.
Here is a link from ZF on how to change/check fluid: http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en..._parts/technology_in_practice_zp/oil_change_procedure_zp/how-to-change-oil.html
The ability to check the ATF temperature comes in handy for this as the level is to be checked at 30C (86F).
I looked around for maximum operating temperatures of ZF transmissions. I didn't find much (didn't look real hard) but saw a link for another ZF automatic here: http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/...folio_1/bus_coach_transmission_us/ecomat_us/ecomat_downloads_us/ZF_Ecomat_4.pdf On page 22 it gave operating ranges of up to 110C (230F) for continuous operation with allowable 5 minutes peaks up to 130C (266F). Now, this may mean nothing for our applications or it might mean that we are worrying too much.
I also found out that ZF makes a whole bunch of ATF fluids.
A bunch of posts back, Jeepster mentioned a $100 ATF change. From what I understand, the ZF fluid costs an arm and a leg. Does anyone know what a fluid/filter change actually costs? I wouldn't be surprised if it runs into the hundreds of dollars from a dealer.
This is something I have done myself on my previous DD which I occasionally towed with. With the fluid level more difficult to check on our Jeeps (and other recent Chrysler vehicles - my '09 Challenger also has no dipstick) this makes it tough on the do-it-yourself-er. I think we have to get away from the concept of the dipstick/fill tube and remember manual transmissions where you had to check the level through the fill hole.
Here is a link from ZF on how to change/check fluid: http://www.zf.com/brands/content/en..._parts/technology_in_practice_zp/oil_change_procedure_zp/how-to-change-oil.html
The ability to check the ATF temperature comes in handy for this as the level is to be checked at 30C (86F).
I looked around for maximum operating temperatures of ZF transmissions. I didn't find much (didn't look real hard) but saw a link for another ZF automatic here: http://www.zf.com/na/content/media/...folio_1/bus_coach_transmission_us/ecomat_us/ecomat_downloads_us/ZF_Ecomat_4.pdf On page 22 it gave operating ranges of up to 110C (230F) for continuous operation with allowable 5 minutes peaks up to 130C (266F). Now, this may mean nothing for our applications or it might mean that we are worrying too much.
I also found out that ZF makes a whole bunch of ATF fluids.
Yes, I believe I mentioned back in May?, that $100 in fluid.
I think I saw some where since then that it was hundreds of dollars just for the "special fluid"
I will ask my dealer when I go in and get an oil change this coming week.
Also I believe some/if not all of the trans cooling is done in the radiator area.. So if you are running hot there it might impact trans temp also.
Generally I do not worry about trans temp. I never had a system on my previous Jeeps to monitor the temp. I do agree with the prior posts that fluid level is probably the cause of high temp unless you are doing some heavy duty driving/towing. And I have towed with my prior Jeeps.
Just be sure you do not have any crud on the cooling unit(s). It does not take a lot to impact the cooling, especially if conditions get tougher.
Generally if your coolant temp is fine, your trans temp should be OK.
If coolant is high the the ZF is running high also.
Just kind of how I have done it in the past. Has never failed me.
That is one of the reasons I do watch for leaks, as that is the only way you will lose trans fluid, period. That is unless it was not topped off on the initial fill or a change.
I also have on my list for the dealer one more question.
On his oil change sheet, on the last oil change I got, they marked off "checked transmission fluid". I just wonder...................................
I think I saw some where since then that it was hundreds of dollars just for the "special fluid"
I will ask my dealer when I go in and get an oil change this coming week.
Also I believe some/if not all of the trans cooling is done in the radiator area.. So if you are running hot there it might impact trans temp also.
Generally I do not worry about trans temp. I never had a system on my previous Jeeps to monitor the temp. I do agree with the prior posts that fluid level is probably the cause of high temp unless you are doing some heavy duty driving/towing. And I have towed with my prior Jeeps.
Just be sure you do not have any crud on the cooling unit(s). It does not take a lot to impact the cooling, especially if conditions get tougher.
Generally if your coolant temp is fine, your trans temp should be OK.
If coolant is high the the ZF is running high also.
Just kind of how I have done it in the past. Has never failed me.
That is one of the reasons I do watch for leaks, as that is the only way you will lose trans fluid, period. That is unless it was not topped off on the initial fill or a change.
I also have on my list for the dealer one more question.
On his oil change sheet, on the last oil change I got, they marked off "checked transmission fluid". I just wonder...................................
I asked a tech at the dealer yesterday what is a normal temp for trans to run. I told him mine frequently runs 180's to 190's. He said as long as trans temp runs lower than coolant temp it shouldn't be a problem.
Today driving home on my 16 mile commute, trans temp ran at 208 and I saw the coolant temp at 203. I took a picture of the gauge so the dealer can't say no codes found it is normal.
Today driving home on my 16 mile commute, trans temp ran at 208 and I saw the coolant temp at 203. I took a picture of the gauge so the dealer can't say no codes found it is normal.
Sounds high to me. Mine did that and then subsequent drives progressed to 220s and then topped out at 240 before dealer agreed to take back and replace transmission. If it gets too hot, you are likely to get check engine light repeatedly and then "service transmission"message. But, who know, your's might go no higher and be fine. Best of luck.
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