whats included in Payload?

10939 Views 32 Replies 8 Participants Last post by rdskill, 10 mo ago

chartle

Discussion Starter · May 9, 2018 (Edited)

On another RV group there are lots of "what can I tow with this truck" posts and it always gets to a payload question. Some half ton trucks with 8,500lb + tow ratings have only a 1,450lb payload.

Whats included or really excluded from the available payload?

Ok for my Jeep my payload is 1,000lb (50lbs less for TH) does this exclude a tank of gas and some say a 150 lb driver. Some also say it excludes another 150 lb passenger.

Most then say check your manual. I did and see no driver exclusion but maybe a fuel exclusion.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The GVWR is the total permissible weight of your vehicle
including driver, passengers, vehicle, options and cargo.
The label also specifies maximum capacities of front and
rear axle systems (GAWR). Total load must be limited so
GVWR and front and rear GAWR are not exceeded.

Payload
The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load
weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the
driver, all passengers, options and cargo.

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Rojhan

· #4 · May 9, 2018

chartle said:
Yea I guess I did so I'm changing my question has anyone seen payload specs for any vehicle where a 150 lb driver is excluded and maybe another 150 lb passenger.

I guess I was assuming that payload calculations had some sort DOT regulations.

Payload is ultimately GVWR - gross vehicle weight. If GVWR is 5,000lbs, vehicle is 4,000lbs, you can add another 1,000lbs. If you have 150lb driver you have 5000-4000-150. If you have a 250lb driver, it's 5000-4000-250.

Some placards and ratings assume a certain driver/passenger/fluid weight, but it is ultimately as simple as GVWR - "put the vehicle on a scale with whatever people, tools, and other stuff you want" = remaining payload.

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Rojhan

· #8 · May 9, 2018

If somebody can post a pic of the door sticker for GVWR and tire pressure, we can tear it apart. My sticker... belongs to somebody else now.

EDIT: I think we've had this discussion before and the "extra" 450lbs is for tongue weight. 1,050 (cargo/payload) + 450 (trailer tongue) = 1,500.

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Rojhan

· #11 · May 9, 2018

@Len1304 - ~4,000lb curb weight + 985 (or 1050lbs) cargo + passenger ~= 5,000lbs
GVWR = 5,500lbs
2,800lbs each FAWR and RAWR = 5,600lbs. This is in line with 5,500lbs GVWR - uneven loading.

There's a disconnect in the placard and the manual because 4,000lbs curb + 1,000lbs passenger/cargo = 5,000lbs which goes back to the original question of the missing 500lbs.

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Rojhan

· #13 · May 9, 2018

Len1304 said:
The GAWR is the Gross Axle Weight Rating, is is the weight limit that any one axle is not allowed to weigh more than. So when you go to a scale house they weigh the front and back of the Jeep (each axle) if either axle is over 2805lbs while you may be under the 5500lbs legal DOT limit you are over your axle weight limit and can still get a ticket and will be required to shift your load. It’s something ya truckers have to deal with all the time. Our trucks have axle limits much higher than our legal limits.

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I know GVWR/GAWR/GCWR, curb-weight, etc.

The point is, the GVWR aligns with the F/R-AWR, but isn't aligned with the curb weight and passenger+cargo rating.

I don't think DOT gets that involved with passenger vehicles. The 10% makes sense in that context, but I've never seen it applied to passenger vehicles.

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Rojhan

· #16 · May 9, 2018

Len1304 said:
Legally, my Jeep is overweight and that’s with only one driver and 1/4 tank of gas.

View attachment 192306

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But, you are within FAWR,RAWR, and GVWR.

I think that the "passenger + payload" number is "informative" and not legally binding, and that's where the slop factor is for adding more weight than you thought.

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Rojhan

· #19 · May 9, 2018

Len1304 said:
I’m over the FAWR. That’s where I’m legally over the limit. I under the limit everywhere else. I take Jeeps recommendation of 5000lbs with a grain of sand... lol

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Oops. I was looking at a 3,600 FAWR sticker, not the KL.

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Rojhan

· #21 · May 9, 2018

Sure... Make me do some research...

49 CFR Part 567: https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2017-title49-vol6/xml/CFR-2017-title49-vol6-part567.xml

49 CFR 527 said:
(3) “Gross Vehicle Weight Rating” or “GVWR” followed by the appropriate value in pounds, which shall not be less than the sum of the unloaded vehicle weight, rated cargo load, and 150 pounds times the number of the vehicle's designated seating positions. However, for school buses the minimum occupant weight allowance shall be 120 pounds per passenger and 150 pounds for the driver.

Of note, passenger and cargo capacities are independent. Which, puts me back to the "passenger + cargo" being informative/guidance/CYA by the manufacturer and GVWR/FAWR/RAWR being the controlling values.

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Rojhan

· #23 · May 9, 2018

Len1304 said:
At the end of the day I’m going with Jeep saying 5000lb limit with 1000lbs people and cargo and tongue weight. Because I don’t like the idea of joe blow in a Cherokee driving down the road with tires under inflated at 6000lbs or more. We’ve all see that car or mini van rolling down the road and we all shake our heads.

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I was actually just trying to scratch the itch of "why don't the numbers add up." I'm satisfied with my answers.

As you've seen from my towing posts, I'm not recommending exceeding any limits, I was just looking for the "missing" 500lbs.

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