[chartle]

On another RV group there are lots of "what can I tow with this truck" posts and it always gets to a payload question. Some half ton trucks with 8,500lb + tow ratings have only a 1,450lb payload.

Whats included or really excluded from the available payload?

Ok for my Jeep my payload is 1,000lb (50lbs less for TH) does this exclude a tank of gas and some say a 150 lb driver. Some also say it excludes another 150 lb passenger.

Most then say check your manual. I did and see no driver exclusion but maybe a fuel exclusion.

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR)
The GVWR is the total permissible weight of your vehicle
including driver, passengers, vehicle, options and cargo.
The label also specifies maximum capacities of front and
rear axle systems (GAWR). Total load must be limited so
GVWR and front and rear GAWR are not exceeded.

Payload
The payload of a vehicle is defined as the allowable load
weight a truck can carry, including the weight of the
driver, all passengers, options and cargo.

 

[Mark_]

Didn't you get answers for this already here ? : http://jeepcherokeeclub.com/337-towing-towed/219361-jeep-cherokee-towing-3500lbs-7.html#post2788681

Or am I missing something...?

 

[chartle]

Didn't you get answers for this already here ? : http://jeepcherokeeclub.com/337-towing-towed/219361-jeep-cherokee-towing-3500lbs-7.html#post2788681

Or am I missing something...?

Yea I guess I did so I'm changing my question has anyone seen payload specs for any vehicle where a 150 lb driver is excluded and maybe another 150 lb passenger.

I guess I was assuming that payload calculations had some sort DOT regulations.

 

[Rojhan]

Yea I guess I did so I'm changing my question has anyone seen payload specs for any vehicle where a 150 lb driver is excluded and maybe another 150 lb passenger.

I guess I was assuming that payload calculations had some sort DOT regulations.

Payload is ultimately GVWR - gross vehicle weight. If GVWR is 5,000lbs, vehicle is 4,000lbs, you can add another 1,000lbs. If you have 150lb driver you have 5000-4000-150. If you have a 250lb driver, it's 5000-4000-250.

Some placards and ratings assume a certain driver/passenger/fluid weight, but it is ultimately as simple as GVWR - "put the vehicle on a scale with whatever people, tools, and other stuff you want" = remaining payload.

 

[nocaps]

Note that on RV forums 'payload' discussions are typically related to towing a fifth wheel trailer, where a significant amount of weight is imposed on the tow vehicle chassis (far more than typical trailer tongue weight.) It's not usually much of a concern for tow-behind trailers as long as maximum tongue and GCWR ratings are observed.

.

 

[Shoulder]

For the TH model with a V6, is the payload capacity 1000lbs or ~1500lbs? I only ask because I've seen both listed, and I thought I recall seeing a GWVR of around 5500lbs for the TH V6, but I cannot confirm that.

All I know if I've definitely loaded more than 1000lbs of cargo + myself, and anything else in my car, but it drove just fine.

 

[Len1304]

Payload for the Cherokee period is 5000lbs according to Jeep. Which for the non TH models is 1000lbs of weight (people, fuel, cargo). LEGAL weight limit however is 5500lbs which is 1500 of weight. That’s what the Jeep is legally allowed to weigh by federal law. Anything over that and you can technically get an overweight ticket.


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[Rojhan]

If somebody can post a pic of the door sticker for GVWR and tire pressure, we can tear it apart. My sticker... belongs to somebody else now.

EDIT: I think we've had this discussion before and the "extra" 450lbs is for tongue weight. 1,050 (cargo/payload) + 450 (trailer tongue) = 1,500.

 

[Len1304]

First one is Jeeps recommended limit.

Second is is the Federal DOT sticker.

Notice the 10% buffer between the legal limit and the recommend limit. So Jeep recommends a max weight of 5000lbs regardless of trim with a legal limit of 5500lbs. That leaves a 10% buffer for room for error. Oops you over packed. Someone is fatter than they should be. The scales are a bit too heavy.

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[Len1304]

If somebody can post a pic of the door sticker for GVWR and tire pressure, we can tear it apart. My sticker... belongs to somebody else now.

EDIT: I think we've had this discussion before and the "extra" 450lbs is for tongue weight. 1,050 (cargo/payload) + 450 (trailer tongue) = 1,500.

Tongue weight is considered cargo weight as explained below in the owners manual.

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[Rojhan]

@Len1304 - ~4,000lb curb weight + 985 (or 1050lbs) cargo + passenger ~= 5,000lbs
GVWR = 5,500lbs
2,800lbs each FAWR and RAWR = 5,600lbs. This is in line with 5,500lbs GVWR - uneven loading.

There's a disconnect in the placard and the manual because 4,000lbs curb + 1,000lbs passenger/cargo = 5,000lbs which goes back to the original question of the missing 500lbs.

 

[Len1304]

@Len1304 - ~4,000lb curb weight + 985 (or 1050lbs) cargo + passenger ~= 5,000lbs
GVWR = 5,500lbs
2,800lbs each FAWR and RAWR = 5,600lbs. This is in line with 5,500lbs GVWR - uneven loading.

There's a disconnect in the placard and the manual because 4,000lbs curb + 1,000lbs passenger/cargo = 5,000lbs which goes back to the original question of the missing 500lbs.

The GAWR is the Gross Axle Weight Rating, is is the weight limit that any one axle is not allowed to weigh more than. So when you go to a scale house they weigh the front and back of the Jeep (each axle) if either axle is over 2805lbs while you may be under the 5500lbs legal DOT limit you are over your axle weight limit and can still get a ticket and will be required to shift your load. It’s something us truckers have to deal with all the time. Our trucks have axle limits much higher than our legal limits.

Also the “missing” 500lbs is the 10% buffer as I said that the DOT builds into the room for human error judgement on weights. So that people don’t have to be exact. So if you are a little over your 5000lbs you are okay. You have a 10% buffer.


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[Rojhan]

The GAWR is the Gross Axle Weight Rating, is is the weight limit that any one axle is not allowed to weigh more than. So when you go to a scale house they weigh the front and back of the Jeep (each axle) if either axle is over 2805lbs while you may be under the 5500lbs legal DOT limit you are over your axle weight limit and can still get a ticket and will be required to shift your load. It’s something ya truckers have to deal with all the time. Our trucks have axle limits much higher than our legal limits.


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I know GVWR/GAWR/GCWR, curb-weight, etc. The point is, the GVWR aligns with the F/R-AWR, but isn't aligned with the curb weight and passenger+cargo rating.

I don't think DOT gets that involved with passenger vehicles. The 10% makes sense in that context, but I've never seen it applied to passenger vehicles.

 

[Len1304]

I know GVWR/GAWR/GCWR, curb-weight, etc. The point is, the GVWR aligns with the F/R-AWR, but isn't aligned with the curb weight and passenger+cargo rating.

Check my edit.


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[Len1304]

Legally, my Jeep is overweight and that’s with only one driver and 1/4 tank of gas.

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[Rojhan]

Legally, my Jeep is overweight and that’s with only one driver and 1/4 tank of gas.

View attachment 192306


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But, you are within FAWR,RAWR, and GVWR.

I think that the "passenger + payload" number is "informative" and not legally binding, and that's where the slop factor is for adding more weight than you thought.

 

[Len1304]

But, you are within FAWR,RAWR, and GVWR.



I think that the "passenger + payload" number is "informative" and not legally binding, and that's where the slop factor is for adding more weight than you thought.

I’m over the FAWR. That’s where I’m legally over the limit. I under the limit everywhere else. I take Jeeps recommendation of 5000lbs with a grain of sand... lol


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[Len1304]

But, you are within FAWR,RAWR, and GVWR.



I think that the "passenger + payload" number is "informative" and not legally binding, and that's where the slop factor is for adding more weight than you thought.

And here soon I’m gonna blow the 5500lb limit out of the water too. So yea... thankfully my suspension is over built, my tires are LT tires, I’m running truck brakes, lol.


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[Rojhan]

I’m over the FAWR. That’s where I’m legally over the limit. I under the limit everywhere else. I take Jeeps recommendation of 5000lbs with a grain of sand... lol


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Oops. I was looking at a 3,600 FAWR sticker, not the KL.

 

[Len1304]

And let’s not talk about when I tow...

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