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Still haven't replaced those fluids, but have been noticing slightly more rougher shifts on the transmission. It's possible the levels are slightly lower, but at that point I'd consider just topping it off than draining it. I may have the dealer look into it first, and judge from there. I could even request they check the transmission oil level, and top off as necessary (same with PTU, and RDM). They say it's all a lifetime fluid, but they say nothing of you can't top it off.
 

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2019 Jeep Cherokee 2.0T Limited 4x4 Techp, 2021 Grand Cherokee L limited, 2020 Compass 4x4 latitude
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
thank you for this information,
I’ve read a flush can damage things, better to just
Drain and fill, would you agree?
I just did a drain and fill of my transmission last week. It is 8 years old and has 53k miles, I bought it used in December. ZF has a recommendation to change at 8 years or 100k miles. The drain and fill replaces a little over half the fluid. Attached are a couple of pics of what came out. I have had several vehicles in the past that have improved with a fluid change and have taken them to 200k. 6 3/8 fluid is what moves this car. Typical recommendations for automatics is if you are well over 100k, its too late to change. I like seeing clean fluid. View attachment 222371 View attachment 222372
 

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Still haven't replaced those fluids, but have been noticing slightly more rougher shifts on the transmission. It's possible the levels are slightly lower, but at that point I'd consider just topping it off than draining it. I may have the dealer look into it first, and judge from there. I could even request they check the transmission oil level, and top off as necessary (same with PTU, and RDM). They say it's all a lifetime fluid, but they say nothing of you can't top it off.
[/QUOTE
thank you for this information,
I’ve read a flush can damage things, better to just
Drain and fill, would you agree?
My opinion only, and this is what I do with my variety of vehicles. My research has been if your transmission is in good shape, refreshing your fluid will improve the physical properties of your fluid, ie closer to new specs. If your transmission has worn, changing the fluid may result in slipping because the wear products in the fluid is actually helping move the car. With clean fluid it will slip. If we agree on that, how does lifetime fluid impact this thought process? There will be a point that that fluid has partially broken down. Just like he said in the video, nothing lasts forever. So eventually the fluid will have degraded and start doing damage. And if you refresh, it will be further from being the cause of failure. Doesn't mean something else won't go wrong! 😞 Looking at what came out of my transmission, I will probably repeat the drain and fill next winter. The fluid had same consistency as new, but definitely was quite dark, compared to the clear green new. Hey, new fluid will not hurt if your within "Lifetime "!
 

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2014 TH 3.2, 2" lift, 1" spacers, Steelies
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Is it possible to add a drain plug to the rdm ? Drill hole and tap it. Has anyone done this
I guess you could but is it really worth it? (a) the drilling, even from the bottom going up, would possibly spin some metal through on the inside of the RDM case when you break through. You'd have to pump oil through several times through the unit to make sure you didn't leave any metal shards inside the case and (b) if you ever try this be sure to use a depth stop collar!!! :eek:
 

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One more thing... there's a recent thread on the forum called "Cracked Differential". The poster is dealing with a cracked RDM. The metal doesn't look all that thick. I'd be afraid of hairline cracks at the newly drilled hole. Could be a problem with no end. Interesting thought though!

Liquid Water Automotive tire Fluid Flash photography
 

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thank you for this information,
I’ve read a flush can damage things, better to just
Drain and fill, would you agree?
Everything I have ever heard for any transmission is that flushes can cause problems. They can disturb and release deposits and wear products. In some cars, a dealer would disconnect a cooler line and with the car running, drain out old and pump in new. That way they would get the fluid that is in the torque converter. The drain and refill is just a fluid replacement. I checked my level before and after just to get an idea where it was and if I got it back. I like to know these things!
 

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Everything I have ever heard for any transmission is that flushes can cause problems. They can disturb and release deposits and wear products. In some cars, a dealer would disconnect a cooler line and with the car running, drain out old and pump in new. That way they would get the fluid that is in the torque converter. The drain and refill is just a fluid replacement. I checked my level before and after just to get an idea where it was and if I got it back. I like to know these things!
Hey @MaineHawk , there's different schools of thought on this so in the end, each person needs to do what feels right.

  • In the 'old tyme days' (according to my kids, when I grew up ;-) the rule was never change your high-mileage tranny fluid because particulates in the fluid actually helped make up for reduced friction plates etc. and if the fluid was changed, slippage could occur.

  • However, on today's modern transmissions, clutch material should end up in the filter and any fine/powdered metal picked up on magnets so the main concern is fluid break-down after being used for year/very high mileage.

Which of these two schools are more accurate is a matter of debate. One thing I would be hesitant to do on my Cherokee though would be to drain/replace through the cooler line method with the engine running. Yes, people do that for older transmissions but this 9ZF has very specific fill specs. With the engine running the pump flow is strong and I would be afraid of draining more than I could replace at the same speed and eventually have the fluid run low. Yes, you change out the torque converter faster this way but you could also do a conventional drain and fill (which gets 1/3-1/2 total fluid on the first pass), wait a couple weeks and then repeat. Again, a personal call. In the end, I just wish there was better guidance from Stellanis/FCA or ZF on exactly what they considered "lifetime", especially since there are many of these earlier transmissions over 150k now. :unsure:
 

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Hey @MaineHawk , there's different schools of thought on this so in the end, each person needs to do what feels right.

  • In the 'old tyme days' (according to my kids, when I grew up ;-) the
Which of these two schools are more accurate is a matter of debate. One thing I would be hesitant to do In the end, I just wish there was better guidance from Stellanis/FCA or ZF on exactly what they considered "lifetime", especially since there are many of these earlier transmissions over 150k now. :unsure:
Yeah, I don't agree with flushes either. I do drain and fills. I guess I wasn't clear when answering the above question. When I say drain and fill only renews the fluid, that is a good thing. What I found from zf was 8 years or 100k miles. I am not willing to wait that many miles, so I did it sooner. Considering the dirty fluid that came out at 52k, I will be repeating well before 100k.
 

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My opinion only, and this is what I do with my variety of vehicles. My research has been if your transmission is in good shape, refreshing your fluid will improve the physical properties of your fluid, ie closer to new specs. If your transmission has worn, changing the fluid may result in slipping because the wear products in the fluid is actually helping move the car. With clean fluid it will slip. If we agree on that, how does lifetime fluid impact this thought process? There will be a point that that fluid has partially broken down. Just like he said in the video, nothing lasts forever. So eventually the fluid will have degraded and start doing damage. And if you refresh, it will be further from being the cause of failure. Doesn't mean something else won't go wrong! 😞 Looking at what came out of my transmission, I will probably repeat the drain and fill next winter. The fluid had same consistency as new, but definitely was quite dark, compared to the clear green new. Hey, new fluid will not hurt if your within "Lifetime "!
I've been hearing more and more about the notion of once you reach a certain mileage (i.e. 150k or something), it doesn't really pay to completely drain and flush the transmission fluid for the reasons you stated. It was, however, stated that you can always add more fluid if it's reading low, which has the benefit of keeping the necessary amount of fluid in the transmission, while still maintaining those other physical properties.

I'm personally a little suspect of that, though it's obvious over time that the metals do wear and tear, and thus collected into the fluid itself. The other aspect of this is does that include transmissions where the filter cannot be easily changed like ours? The KL's transmission requires a complete removal of the unit itself, and taken apart do replace the filter. It is physically inside the casing.

In most conventional transmissions though, replacing the fluids and filter is typically an easy job, but not so in a vehicle like ours. Maybe by flushing the fluid out instead of just filling it back up, you're prolonging the life of the transmission since what is absorbed into the filter doesn't really re-enter into the fluid to circulate anyway, but the filter will continue to get more and more built up with wear metals, and other gunk that might accumulate.

Perhaps someone else with some more insight can chime in though.

EDIT: And there's the elephant in the room too. How long is "lifetime" when it comes to fluid, and from a legal perspective, could it be argued if my transmission were to blow up tomorrow, that falls under Stellantis' problem rather than mine because I, the consumer, believed a lifetime fluid meant it would last hundreds and hundreds of thousands of miles? The next question though is does lifetime constitute how old the car is, or how many miles are on it?

Interestingly, the 9-Speed in the KL, while a Chrysler-spec unit, is still a version of ZF's own 9HP transmission. And if you look at the maintenance intervals of vehicles with those exact transmissions, it certainly is not listed as "lifetime" fluids. Take the 2020 or newer Honda Ridgeline (and other Honda models) that use the ZF 9HP. There are maintenance schedules for the transmission, and do not say lifetime fluid, at least I didn't see it listed. My 2014 Owner's Manual for the Cherokee KL even states,

"Under normal operating conditions, the fluid installed at the factory will provide satisfactory lubrication for the life of the vehicle.
Routine fluid and filter changes are not required. However, change the fluid and filter if the fluid becomes contaminated (with water, etc.), or if the transmission is disassembled for any reason."
 
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I guess that was my point about the filter, that it must also be considered lifetime by Jeep. If so, the filter must be for larger particles but not truly cleaning the fluid of micro wear products, otherwise it would get plugged up. Periodic drain and refills removes at least some of the micro wear products that come out with the old. I think it is similar to the engine oil changes in that the internals stay cleaner when you change oil often before it is super black and contaminated. This results in less build up in small passageways. Additionally, replacing some fluid periodically should help maintain the fluid specs closer to new. This car is propelled by less than 7 quarts of fluid. After many years and many miles, it can't still be as good as new. I guess, IMHO, the fluid maintenance is much more important than the filter change.

I consider it a vicious cycle. If you wait too long, you shouldn't change the fluid, but by them saying it is lifetime fluid, it leads people to wait too long.
 

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One more thing... there's a recent thread on the forum called "Cracked Differential". The poster is dealing with a cracked RDM. The metal doesn't look all that thick. I'd be afraid of hairline cracks at the newly drilled hole. Could be a problem with no end. Interesting thought though!

View attachment 222412
This is my 2019 with 40K. Agree with Gary. In my opinion it’s a combination of thin skinned and lack of anodized aluminum. Because the aluminum is not anodized it is vulnerable to corrosion in the north. Which is what I think happened here. It’s been replaced and I waxed the new one. Lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
Yeah, I don't agree with flushes either. I do drain and fills. I guess I wasn't clear when answering the above question. When I say drain and fill only renews the fluid, that is a good thing. What I found from zf was 8 years or 100k miles. I am not willing to wait that many miles, so I did it sooner. Considering the dirty fluid that came out at 52k, I will be repeating well before 100k.
How did you get it done, local shop and myself couldn’t come to a final determination of the best way to get it done, the dealership refused to do it. So I guess in short, at 70k & 4 years, what else do you recommend to be done, (ie, gear oil, transfer case, so on)?
 

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I used a few resources. The thread on this sight helped alot. I will add the link. There are also a couple of websites that explain. Search for cherokee 9 speed atf fluid change. Getting to the plug for the fill and level check is the hardest part. I believe with the 4 cylinder you need to take off the front driverside wheel well liner.
 

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