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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been researching winches for the KL the past few months and came across and interesting question. I plan on going with the frog fab winch mount, so that is leaning me toward the Warn VR EVO winches since they recommend the 8S. I plan on going with synthetic line to save as much weight as possible. That being said, other than cost, is there any reason to get the 8K vs the 12K? I pulled Warns spec sheet and the 8/10/12 all have the same dimensions and same weight when using synthetic line. The 12S does have a slightly higher gear ratio, and I would assume the clutches would correspond to the correct rating for each model. In Florida we have a lot of thick mud, so would rather have more winch then not enough. I also generally have more than enough spots to pull from, so running a snatch block if needed would generally also not be an issue.
 

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I've been researching winches for the KL the past few months and came across and interesting question. I plan on going with the frog fab winch mount, so that is leaning me toward the Warn VR EVO winches since they recommend the 8S. I plan on going with synthetic line to save as much weight as possible. That being said, other than cost, is there any reason to get the 8K vs the 12K? I pulled Warns spec sheet and the 8/10/12 all have the same dimensions and same weight when using synthetic line. The 12S does have a slightly higher gear ratio, and I would assume the clutches would correspond to the correct rating for each model. In Florida we have a lot of thick mud, so would rather have more winch then not enough. I also generally have more than enough spots to pull from, so running a snatch block if needed would generally also not be an issue.
I'd say 8K is plenty sufficient, especially with saving weight...馃槑
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
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Actually, all three are the same weight with synthetic.
Ah, well a common rule of thumb with winches is at least double the vehicle weight. I doubt you're going to be winching the KL up any vertical faces, and the Warn Evo Series winches are extremely capable and reliable, so now we're down to price. If you're more comfortable with a little overkill, go with the 10K, otherwise I'd still say that the 8K is still plenty capable, and sufficient...馃槑
 

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I can't relate from the KL platform but I can give my experience with my Compass MK, which had a RRO winch bumper and Smitty Built 8000lb winch with synthetic rope. My compass was approx 4000lbs fully outfitting so a bit lighter than a KL but it doesn't really make a difference.

The 2 biggest things you will encounter when using a winch with vehicles like this is not it's weight rating but
1. Being "heavy" enough to be anchored to pull people out. Depending on the weight you will just end up sliding around trying to make a tough pull or recovery to the point where you probably won't approach the 8000lb limit let alone a 12000lb limit.

2. 12v DC Power. Here is the chart for the power draw of the winch I used



Near the upper end of limit 310a and 410a although in the real world it's usually higher.

My compass had a 140a alternator. I ran a Northstar Group 24 Marine battery. The battery didn't have too much problem dealing with the load except on very hard pulls and I couldn't run the winch for more than about 10-15 seconds without the vehicle electronics starting to get picky (sound familiar) with the voltage dropping. The KL alternator is 180A (tow package) so you will have a bit more power to start out with. If you use the winch too long you risk stalling the vehicle out, I always had power to restart but carried a lithium jump pack just in case.

All this is to say don't worry about going with a 8000lb winch as it won't really be the limiting factor. You just have to pay attention to your electrical system as it's quite a high draw.

Somewhat related picture

 

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The other thing I forgot to mention. I killed the factory flooded battery in my compass the FIRST time I ever winched someone out. If you have a stock battery I would highly suggest getting a better battery (Can't remember if you have a better one or not)
 

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Yep, you're going to need plenty of power to run it, for sure. Shackles, pulleys, anchors, and tree savers are must have accessories too for maximum efficiency...馃槑
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I can't relate from the KL platform but I can give my experience with my Compass MK, which had a RRO winch bumper and Smitty Built 8000lb winch with synthetic rope. My compass was approx 4000lbs fully outfitting so a bit lighter than a KL but it doesn't really make a difference.

The 2 biggest things you will encounter when using a winch with vehicles like this is not it's weight rating but
1. Being "heavy" enough to be anchored to pull people out. Depending on the weight you will just end up sliding around trying to make a tough pull or recovery to the point where you probably won't approach the 8000lb limit let alone a 12000lb limit.

2. 12v DC Power. Here is the chart for the power draw of the winch I used



Near the upper end of limit 310a and 410a although in the real world it's usually higher.

My compass had a 140a alternator. I ran a Northstar Group 24 Marine battery. The battery didn't have too much problem dealing with the load except on very hard pulls and I couldn't run the winch for more than about 10-15 seconds without the vehicle electronics starting to get picky (sound familiar) with the voltage dropping. The KL alternator is 180A (tow package) so you will have a bit more power to start out with. If you use the winch too long you risk stalling the vehicle out, I always had power to restart but carried a lithium jump pack just in case.

All this is to say don't worry about going with a 8000lb winch as it won't really be the limiting factor. You just have to pay attention to your electrical system as it's quite a high draw.

Somewhat related picture

That is a good point. I've got the X2 for battery. Going a little from memory, but I believe for the 12K it was like 398 ish at max, and about 40 or 50 less at max for 8k. However, the 12 vs the 8 had lower app draw at each load other than over about 10. Truthfully, I'll most likely probably end up going with the 8K and saving the extra money.
 
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I will add that you shouldn't go too big on winches either. Too much pulling power can lead to bad things. If you have a 24,000lb winch and under the right conditions you might just rip the front end off your vehicle. Also to add the winch I believe that the aftermarket cradles have less strength than the stock bumper bar so that may also compromise safety. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with a winch gets in a front end collision and the insurance company may deny the claim.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I will add that you shouldn't go too big on winches either. Too much pulling power can lead to bad things. If you have a 24,000lb winch and under the right conditions you might just rip the front end off your vehicle. Also to add the winch I believe that the aftermarket cradles have less strength than the stock bumper bar so that may also compromise safety. I wouldn't be surprised if someone with a winch gets in a front end collision and the insurance company may deny the claim.
This was literally my biggest concern. My first though was if I got really stuck and had a short pull, I could just run the 12K winch without a block vs pulling the line out and running a block, however, that would also pull much more power for the same pull so it would be better to just pull more out and not be lazy. Most of the vehicles here are much larger, 3/4 and 1 tons, so a 12k would be better to help those guys if I tie to a tree, but then once again, I don't want to risk ripping the front off or messing up part of the chassis. I will probably just end up going with the 8K, or maybe 10K.
 

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I could just run the 12K winch without a block vs pulling the line out and running a block, however, that would also pull much more power for the same pull so it would be better to just pull more out and not be lazy.
Yep. You should always use blocks wherever possible, and setup the straightest, most direct pull you can possibly get to prevent damage, and bad things. Honestly Mike, I would most likely go with the 8K just for all the reasons we discussed. Amps and voltage are a biggie. I have a 5k on my Can Am, and I know when I upgraded the charging system, and installed a massive (for the application) X2 Power Lithium Powersport battery, it made a huge difference...馃槑
 

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I bent my left front tow hook because I couldn't get a straight pull. I was climbing
a hill and the Jeep started sliding sideways. Once the nose pitched about 10 o'clock
I stopped before the Jeep was at 9 o'clock risking a roll over. Noway for my buddy
to get a straight pull, and ended up bending my left tow hook...

 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I bent my left front tow hook because I couldn't get a straight pull. I was climbing
a hill and the Jeep started sliding sideways. Once the nose pitched about 10 o'clock
I stopped before the Jeep was at 9 o'clock risking a roll over. Noway for my buddy
to get a straight pull, and ended up bending my left tow hook...

You know, this is a good point that I didn't think about. Not necessary the straight pull part, but I believe the hooks are only rated for 1.5 GVWR. A double pull all the way out with a 12K (or even a 10 K), would exceed the rating of the hook.
 

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The EVO line is made in China. If you are going with Chinese stuff, then there are cheaper winches that are just as good. For example, Rough Country gets great reviews and you can get a 9,500-lb version for less than half the cost of an EVO.

I used to be a big Warn fan because of their lifetime warranty. Now it's lifetime on mechanicals and less on electrical (7 years for EVO). Still a much better-than-average warranty, but only if you use it. Since you can get two cheaper winches for the price of one Warn the warranty seems a bit diluted, especially since many of the other winches are lasting many years without issues.

I used my Warn warranty to repair my PowerPlant - covered a complete rebuild and new electrical components, and that was done around the 9-year mark. So it is possible you may actually get your money's worth, but it's a bet.

As far as the EVO goes, why not just split the difference and get the EVO 10? Its current draw is just a bit more than halfway between the 8 and 12, but still reasonable I also think you can save a few bucks by getting the non-synthetic and respooling it yourself with after-market synthetic line - it's pretty easy as long as you can get to the base of the drum. You always need to respool new winch line anyway, so really the only effort is to remove the steel cable and attach the synthetic line.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The EVO line is made in China. If you are going with Chinese stuff, then there are cheaper winches that are just as good. For example, Rough Country gets great reviews and you can get a 9,500-lb version for less than half the cost of an EVO.

I used to be a big Warn fan because of their lifetime warranty. Now it's lifetime on mechanicals and less on electrical (7 years for EVO). Still a much better-than-average warranty, but only if you use it. Since you can get two cheaper winches for the price of one Warn the warranty seems a bit diluted, especially since many of the other winches are lasting many years without issues.

I used my Warn warranty to repair my PowerPlant - covered a complete rebuild and new electrical components, and that was done around the 9-year mark. So it is possible you may actually get your money's worth, but it's a bet.

As far as the EVO goes, why not just split the difference and get the EVO 10? Its current draw is just a bit more than halfway between the 8 and 12, but still reasonable I also think you can save a few bucks by getting the non-synthetic and respooling it yourself with after-market synthetic line - it's pretty easy as long as you can get to the base of the drum. You always need to respool new winch line anyway, so really the only effort is to remove the steel cable and attach the synthetic line.
I was actually going to look into the respooling part. I think they also change the fairlead as well from the rollers to the smooth front (which should also weight less) so that will also go into the determination. The main reason for going with that winch line is I know it will fit. I can compare that to others dimensions as well, but figured saving a few bucks and possibly running into a fitment issue might not be worth it.
 

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I was actually going to look into the respooling part. I think they also change the fairlead as well from the rollers to the smooth front (which should also weight less) so that will also go into the determination. The main reason for going with that winch line is I know it will fit. I can compare that to others dimensions as well, but figured saving a few bucks and possibly running into a fitment issue might not be worth it.
Yes, Roller fair leads for cable, aluminum Hawse for synthetics.
As far as I know, when I installed my warn there was only one that would fit the V6 TH if any of the dimensions are different I see install issues as there is No room for error.
The RRO winch cradle will be the only thing left in a collision, the factory bumper is made to collapse in an accident and the RRO bumper will not give, but the frame aft of it will, by design, and it will be good by radiator. At least that鈥檚 how I see it playing out
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Yes, Roller fair leads for cable, aluminum Hawse for synthetics.
As far as I know, when I installed my warn there was only one that would fit the V6 TH if any of the dimensions are different I see install issues as there is No room for error.
The RRO winch cradle will be the only thing left in a collision, the factory bumper is made to collapse in an accident and the RRO bumper will not give, but the frame aft of it will, by design, and it will be good by radiator. At least that鈥檚 how I see it playing out
I actually have the 2.0L, so not sure how much extra room I will have, but figure it would probably be similar to the V6. The other thing is I have the technology package, so not sure how that's going to work with the setup. From what I can tell, the front camera and the parking sensors should all be free so shouldn't have any issues.
 

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I was actually going to look into the respooling part. I think they also change the fairlead as well from the rollers to the smooth front (which should also weight less) so that will also go into the determination. The main reason for going with that winch line is I know it will fit. I can compare that to others dimensions as well, but figured saving a few bucks and possibly running into a fitment issue might not be worth it.
If you do some research, you'll see that roller fairleads are just fine with synthetic as long as they aren't used with a metal cable. Using metal roller fairleads can be damaged pretty quickly using a metal cable, especially if the metal cable is even the slightest bit frayed. However, if they are brand-new there's no concern.

Also, you can swap your rollers out for Delrin rollers (which I did) which gives all the advantages of rollers even if you have used your metal cable a time or two. The weight difference is very small between a Hawse and roller fairlead. Delrin is very light.

A little more research will confirm that synthetic cable of the same size as the metal will actually pull more. Synthetic can be wound more tightly than metal cable so you can get a little more length if you should desire. I put about 25 more feet of synthetic on my winch as compared to the metal cable with even more pulling strength.

Hawse fairleads will put an inordinate amount of wear on metal or synthetic cable. Every pull with a Hawse involves friction. There is little of that with rollers. The downside of a roller is you can pinch the rope between the rollers if you aren't careful. Since they overlap, it isn't easy to do!
 
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I actually have the 2.0L, so not sure how much extra room I will have, but figure it would probably be similar to the V6. The other thing is I have the technology package, so not sure how that's going to work with the setup. From what I can tell, the front camera and the parking sensors should all be free so shouldn't have any issues.
The RRO kit is most definitely not plug and play with the tech kit. I had to make quite a bit of modification to lower bumper to fit the radar sensor.
 
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