thoughts on shopping for a car

Flybynightcru said:

My son's girlfriend has like a 2016 Prius, that's now worthless to her because the batteries are cycled out, and she doesn't have $7000 to replace them. Won't run with bad batteries. Just a friendly FYI...😉😎

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How many miles on that Prius? Something’s not right there.

We have a couple friends that have went 10-15 years and 200k+ miles on them. My wife had a new ‘09 Prius that over time she put about 160k. Would have kept going, but someone re-ended her and totaled the vehicle back in 2016 on her way to work.

She now has a 2016 Lincoln MKZ hybrid with about 120k. Runs like new! Hybrids tend to have extended warranties built in on the batteries and hybrid systems (the Prius’s do - or at least did), so I’m very curious what the deets are with a 2016 Prius needing a battery, let alone it not being covered. Sounds like an EXTREME outlier.

I would counter that hybrids are one of the best options out there right now when gas mileage is important. For instance, my wife’s former work commute was about 20k per year for just work. Now a permanent WFH situation, but at that time, hybrids were great, and very dependable for us. I would not hesitate to go with one. Ford (we have experience with a Fusion hybrid in our family, and now my wife’s Lincoln), have been extremely reliable for us. Neither was as great on gas mileage as the Prius, but both drove and handled better, and both were light years more comfortable than the Prius.

rumrunner said:

gotta say there's a lot to like (even w/ 75K miles!)

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I was going to suggest looking at similar Escapes (AWD hybrids) to my oldest son this summer when he had originally planned to look for a somewhat new model pre-owned car to replace his current one. I think they are a great option, and Ford’s hybrids are solid. In the end, I ended up giving him a deal on my former vehicle because I unexpectedly made a switch to my new TH.

I would 100% get the Escape over a Subaru, unless the price is radically less for the Subaru. That Escape AWD hybrid would give a pretty darn nice combination of road handling in bad weather, but really decent mpg for commuting. What went sideways with it - price? features? a discovered problem with the vehicle?

Anyway, if other factors have you going in a different direction, totally understandable. Only 18k miles on the Cherokee sounds GREAT, so I can appreciate going for that. 9 years old though and not garaged would have me concerned on hoses and wires, seals, etc… That’s a lot of sitting around and lack of use. How is the underbody and body panels? Those would be concerns of mine, but the rest: Cherokee with 18k miles is REALLY nice!

Hoping something falls into place for you soon. Also sorry to hear about the news about needing to help more with your moms home and that situation. Sending my best in that regard!

rumrunner said:

more thoughts on car shopping, before I forget

that 1st salesman with the first light blue Crosstrek, could have said yes to my overnight test drive request & gotten me to sign papers the next morning, but nope, he let me walk away

the 2nd guy at the other Subie dealership also let me walk away, after a good 1 1/2 hrs from when I first took it for the hill test, until we agreed on a deal, with 4 reiterations, in my favor. if I was him, I would have said "why don't you borrow it for the night & bring it back after work tomorrow"

then there were the 2? Cherokee salesmen that (1 was a TH!), if they we good at this, would have tossed me the keys & said come back tomorrow. because you know, full well, that after a few hours w/ the Cherokee, you love it

anyway, I walked into my neighborhood dealership this morning & my first words were something like. "I want to buy a car today, do you think that's something you can help me with?" ...

he just told me in the '80s, he was selling 60 cars a month & used a manual typewriter for all the paperwork

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So true on the difference they CAN make:

I test drove my current Cherokee TH on a bit of a whim. Saw it online bored getting an oil change on my prior vehicle.

It was the color and option package I wanted. However I wasn’t actually actively looking. Just price tracking as I was planning on getting a new vehicle in the fall.

I test drove it, and LOVED the comfort compared to my then current vehicle. The TH is a 2020 off lease, so I had him run numbers on the new ones because there were incentives (hadn’t seen those in some time). Actually some really good incentives, BUT nothing in the color/motor/options I wanted like the used one I had test drove.

Salesman goes, “let me run numbers on the 2020 in the lot that you liked and see how low I can get it. Here’s the Car fax on it and our CPO inspection/work for you while I run numbers with the sales manager.”

The amount he came back with was outstanding given comparable prices. So I went out and did a much more thorough inspection of it in the lot. Test drove it again…harder.

When I came back from my test drive, I asked him about taking it for an hour or two to take home and show wife as I was considering it. It was a Friday afternoon.

He goes, “How about you take it for the weekend and let me know what you and the wife think sometime Monday?” I did. Wife loved it. Gave us some extra time to test it out. The extra time sold us on the car. Without that, I bet we wouldn’t have bought it and I would not have sold my previous car until fall when originally planned.

A smart and honest salesman, with a little flexibility to do the above, can be a difference maker.

Flybynightcru said:

And more than a 200 mile range. I don't care what the advertised range says, just ask any Tesla owner what the REAL range is when listening to the radio, and running the heating and air, etc...I'm nowhere near convinced...😉😎

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Or running it in a real northern winter with frigid temperatures. Range is a serious consideration, as is accessibility to working recharging stations and access to competent dealership repair facility.

I love some of the electric options and support greater options in this arena. There’s a few I wouldn’t mind owning. However, I still think you’d have to relegate it to work, errands, and basically just an around town commuter vehicle. Anything beyond that offers too much uncertainty for charging. The few people I know with them are stressed when leaving town due to having run into recharging issues on the road.

It just seems like one would still need an ICE as a secondary vehicle. I can see electric being one option in a two car family right now. However, I wouldn’t be comfortable if it were my only option currently.

Story related to Rum’s glovebox find above.

We leased a 95 Grand Am GT when we got married out of college for my wife. Sporty and cool at the time, but a mechanical headache. Constant inconvenience and downtime. Pretty - but a lemon.

Insult to injury, the dealership started being a total PTA to deal with and pushing back instead of just inspecting, diagnosing, and taking care of it.

2nd year of the lease. The front wheel assembly breaks off the vehicle on a local road. Literally snapped off! Front of car bottoms out. Dealership said there were signs of an accident and not mechanical failure. Kid you not. We are like, yes…it broke off and front of car ”crashed” down on the pavement because this car is an unsafe lemon!!! Wife even had witness / police report verifying that it “just happened” without any other contact or road problem.

Anyway, I was done getting “lectured” by them on that lemon of a car… Called another Pontiac dealership, they said they would send a truck, flat bed it out, and process as warranty or accident or combo under lease and our insurance - said they would coordinate and get it taken care of - and did! No B.S., just service and smile. We sent many people there way over the years as a result!

The rest of the lease we continued to have ticky-tack mechanical issues. Always went to the further away dealership until it was time to turn it in off lease. Turned it in at original dealership - Sawyers Pontiac, E. Lansing MI at the time.

Did the following at lease turn in:
- I left a note for future owners in owners manual outlining the “lemon” history we’d had with the car. Separate letter how Sawyers Pontiac was not helpful or supportive after the first year.

- I spoke to the dealership manager (owners spoiled kid) AND service dept managers, as well as the owner directly. Handed each a copy of our purchase paperwork on our new Astro Conversion Van (kids - ha!) and let them know they missed any chance at a sale. I proceed to make it clear as 2 young professionals, they had permanently lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in future car purchases. I let the owner know I would let him know whenever I purchased another vehicle somewhere else.

- Finally, for the next 20+ years I would send the owner and his son (now the owner) a letter with a copy of my purchase invoice whenever we got a new car showcasing another missed sales opportunity and a copy of my original letter from ‘96 when I turned in our lease. They got one for our ‘96 Astro Conversion van, ‘98 Monte Carlo, ‘01 Yukon, ‘09 Prius (totaled in ‘14), 10 Yukon quickly replaced quickly by a 10 Escalade Platinum (‘12 off lease purchases), 14 Fusion (totaled in ‘16) and finally ‘16 Lincoln MKZ hybrid.

As I write this, I now realize I did not update them on my last two purchases, my former 2017 BMW X3 and my new to me off lease 2020 TH. I also didn’t bother notifying them when our 4 kids have gotten vehicles (four young adult kids now, each on their 1st or second vehicle).

Worst purchase/lease AND customer service experience of our life. Made sure to leave a note in that glove box for that cars new owner as a warning.

Dealership to avoid forever: Sawyers Pontiac, in East Lansing Michigan at the time, now closed. Owners son now owns their newer dealership: Sawyers Chevrolet in DeWitt, Michigan.

I hope them trying to constantly hassle us about warranty repairs on that 3 year lease lemon of a vehicle was worth the potential sale of the 10 new or off lease vehicles we’ve purchased since then over the years, as well as 7 vehicles our adult kids have owned (and who knows how many friends and family heeded our warning and avoided them).

Kiss my A$$ Mr. Sawyer and Sawyers Chevrolet. Now…what were we talking about again?