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I feel more power yes definitely.. I remember when I got the trailhawk after I wrecked the limited.. I first thing I did was the cold air intake.. Then the exhaust, and the PC makes driving it fun... I'd like to do some pulls one day at a track with and without the PC just to see the difference and shut down Tyler and the other haters.

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Right on. I hear all the talk about the older KL's driveability issues, mostly transmission wonkyness. I've never experienced any of those in my 19. I don't know if they just married the software with 2.0T, or what, but my Trailhawk is a freaking beast, shifts flawlessly, and when it is supposed to. Zero searching for the right gear, and way less unnecessary downshifts. I'm chalking that up to the vastly different torque and power bands between the 3.2 and the 2.0T. I'm basing that on spending a lot of time driving my buddies 17 with the 3.2, which is what made me want one too. I was sceptical about the 2.0T, but not anymore. Mine walks away from his from the line, and really handles the trails in a much more controlled manner. I'm determined to get more performance out of the little thing, but it does a good job stock.
 

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It'd definitely be interesting to check out whether the improved feel also translates to improved actual times. I know in traffic its embarassing when I'm on the stop line because I just do normal cruise away and everyone else is still crossing the intersection when I'm 40 yards down the road - no flooring it, no revving - she just GOES. And if I deliberately go REAL soft so i dont run away, dude next to me is revving and thrashing while im just smoothly haulin... Its strange, because you'd think that increasing throttle ratio would mean lots of high revving etc but in actual fact it revs and thrashes much LESS - ie. just smoothly and powerfully hauls arse down the road.
 

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Right on. I hear all the talk about the older KL's driveability issues, mostly transmission wonkyness. I've never experienced any of those in my 19. I don't know if they just married the software with 2.0T, or what, but my Trailhawk is a freaking beast, shifts flawlessly, and when it is supposed to. Zero searching for the right gear, and way less unnecessary downshifts. I'm chalking that up to the vastly different torque and power bands between the 3.2 and the 2.0T. I'm basing that on spending a lot of time driving my buddies 17 with the 3.2, which is what made me want one too. I was sceptical about the 2.0T, but not anymore. Mine walks away from his from the line, and really handles the trails in a much more controlled manner. I'm determined to get more performance out of the little thing, but it does a good job stock.
The 2.0T sounds like a terrific powerplant! (y)
 
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I think mine is much quicker, and it definitely feels faster. I enjoy shocking people as I walk them off the line on the street... I could never drive the Cherokee without the PC on.

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I feel more power yes definitely.. I remember when I got the trailhawk after I wrecked the limited.. I first thing I did was the cold air intake.. Then the exhaust, and the PC makes driving it fun... I'd like to do some pulls one day at a track with and without the PC just to see the difference and shut down Tyler and the other haters.

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Your pedal commander doesn't make the vehicle faster..........and your intake and exhaust do very little. I mean what would I know about anything because i'm the one that has actual performance data from multiple cherokees. You can do EVERY single bolt on possible to a cherokee and not be tuned and still be slower than a stock cherokee that only has a PCM tune, because I've tested that theory out. I get that it "feels" faster but it's really not.

My 2016 TH with AFE CAI and flowmaster muffler (which does nothing performance wise)



Now a 2014 TH with AFE and stock muffler



So now we have a baseline for what a nearly stock 3.2 Trailhawk runs, both of them nearly the same times and same modifications.

So lets now add nothing more than a simple PCM tune to the 2014 TH



So nothing more than a PCM tune drops the time by 0.6s and gains 2.2mph, oh and that PCM tune actually changes the electronic throttle unlike using a tricking device.

Now lets go to the 2016 TH with PCM/TCM Tune, AFE CAI (same as before) A ported Throttlebody and Pentastar Upgrade Engine Lower intake manifold.



So that's 1.22s quicket in ET and 5.22mph faster track speed, by adding a PCM/TCM Tune + Ported TB and PUG Manifold.



Now lets compare how a tuned 2014 TH and my tuned 2016 TH compare with slightly different mods (keep in mind both tuned by the same tuner)



You can see with the addition of a TCM tune, the Ported TB and PUG manifold i'm 0.6s quicker than another TUNED cherokee.

So it's all fun and games I can post time slips, how about a video of how 2 tuned cherokees race at the track.


Notice the one has much more top end power than the other, it's pretty noticeable.


I'd like to do some pulls one day at a track with and without the PC just to see the difference and shut down Tyler and the other haters
So what exactly am I hating on. Telling you exactly how a PC doesn't do a single thing for performance? It's not going to increase or decrease track times. You go WOT at the track. When you launch at the track you go WOT so what exactly is a PC doing if the vehicle is already being commanded to go to WOT. Having a difference of 0.1s up or down doesn't mean a thing when it comes to "but it was faster"

It's not hate it's called cold hard facts and data something you have zero of where as I have a lot. I'll patiently wait though.....
 

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So if i understand this right you are going to "shut me down" because your intake and exhaust cherokee with a Pedal commander is faster. That's super funny because i'm reall curious to know how you are going to get around the torque management that is still 100% functioning and limit engine power and torque on both sides (being PCM and TCM)
Last time I checked your pedal commander isn't changing these values in the TCM....
 

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Lets watch a video

This is the VCM Scanner Log of my Cherokee launching on the 15.09s run.

The process for launching is as follower. Foot 100% on the brake, Foot 100% on the gas.
When the tree drops I take my foot off the brake.

Notice the throttle at approx 75% its reported as 75% despite we being WOT, a pedal commander doesn't change that, this is a limitation of the electronic throttle control programming in GPEC2 PCMs, once there is vehicle speed detected it goes up to 86.3% which IS WOT.

The point i'm making is that the vehicle is already being commanded to have WOT so what/how is a Pedal Commander going to make a vehicle faster when it's not making the vehicle do anything when the vehicle is commanded to be at WOT. All it does is tell the electronic throttle to give more throttle at a given pedal position. So if you give the vehicle 1/2 throttle the pedal commander says gives 3/4 throttle.

If you want a vehicle to go faster you need to give it more fuel and spark, can you explain how a pedal commander changes these values?



If its not changing fuel and spark how does the vehicle go faster?
 

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Man, I just checked the aFe website, and still not a damn thing for the 2.0T, except their K&N type stock replacement filter element. I think I'm going to start snooping the Alfa groups and see what they're doing if anything.
 

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View attachment 210873 I'd settle for stock Giulia numbers, it's the exact same motor. I'm not sure I would want to experience 150mph in a Trailhawk. Might be a little sketchy.
It's not even close to the same engine, the cherokee engine is made in the US, the Alfa engine is made in italy
 

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So if i understand this right you are going to "shut me down" because your intake and exhaust cherokee with a Pedal commander is faster. That's super funny because i'm reall curious to know how you are going to get around the torque management that is still 100% functioning and limit engine power and torque on both sides (being PCM and TCM)
Last time I checked your pedal commander isn't changing these values in the TCM....
I'd pay money to watch some racing right now!!! I'm having withdrawls!!! LOL
 

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I'd pay money to watch some racing right now!!! I'm having withdrawls!!! LOL
Not trying to shut anyone down bro.... You and your tuner win.. Good for you. Golf

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Quoted wrong post. I enjoy my quick Cherokee.

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Tyler there's no denying your expertise (respect) - the issue if there is one is that YOU tend to shut down the significance of how things like Pedal Commander and Sprint Booster really DO make a HUGE improvement to the driving experience. I'd suggest you work hard to do the same thing thru your tune, because until you do that or get a Pedal Commander or Sprint Booster yourself, mate ur missing out BIG TIME.
 

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Not trying to shut anyone down bro.... You and your tuner win.. Good for you. Golf

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  • It's all good man. We're just having discussions on what everyone has done for mods, and how it's working for everyone. That's what it's all about on here. I haven't done anything to mine yet, except finally order my lift. Tyler is not my tuner, but I gotta say, he does have a way of backing stuff up with data and facts. I'll never put down or disrespect anyone on here about their KL's, and what they choose to do with them, whether it's a positive, or negative outcome. I'm here to learn, and I have learned a lot from all of you guys, good and bad. Jeeps of any generation have never been my expertise, I'm more of an old school American Muscle expert. I can tell you everything to tune your modern Shelby GT 350, C7 Corvette, or ZL1 Camaro, and clear back to old school non emission engines from the 60's and 70's. My offloading was always 2 wheels, until I bought my old Xterra, which I did do some mods to, but nothing crazy, and that was a great vehicle that would take me anywhere I pointed her, from the top of a mountain, to the middle of the desert. Had 280,000 hard miles on her when I sold her and pulled the trigger on the Trailhawk, and she never left me stranded. If the Trailhawk is half as good to me as the Xterra was, I'll be a happy KL owner, and so far I am. Let's keep up a little friendly debate, it keeps us all thinking together to come up with new and improved ideas, since surprisingly enough there still isn't a lot of options to choose from to make the KL's really shine. The platform is there, and I know there's some smart people somewhere working on new things. That's how it's always worked on my side of the performance industry.
 

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  • It's all good man. We're just having discussions on what everyone has done for mods, and how it's working for everyone. That's what it's all about on here. I haven't done anything to mine yet, except finally order my lift. Tyler is not my tuner, but I gotta say, he does have a way of backing stuff up with data and facts. I'll never put down or disrespect anyone on here about their KL's, and what they choose to do with them, whether it's a positive, or negative outcome. I'm here to learn, and I have learned a lot from all of you guys, good and bad. Jeeps of any generation have never been my expertise, I'm more of an old school American Muscle expert. I can tell you everything to tune your modern Shelby GT 350, C7 Corvette, or ZL1 Camaro, and clear back to old school non emission engines from the 60's and 70's. My offloading was always 2 wheels, until I bought my old Xterra, which I did do some mods to, but nothing crazy, and that was a great vehicle that would take me anywhere I pointed her, from the top of a mountain, to the middle of the desert. Had 280,000 hard miles on her when I sold her and pulled the trigger on the Trailhawk, and she never left me stranded. If the Trailhawk is half as good to me as the Xterra was, I'll be a happy KL owner, and so far I am. Let's keep up a little friendly debate, it keeps us all thinking together to come up with new and improved ideas, since surprisingly enough there still isn't a lot of options to choose from to make the KL's really shine. The platform is there, and I know there's some smart people somewhere working on new things. That's how it's always worked on my side of the performance industry.
+1 to everything said there! I'm similar in that I'm over 50 and have been messing about with old technology cars for many years then more recently actually did get into ECU tuning with the EECV in my Aussie I6 Ford Falcon (also worked the head + big cam and high flow exhaust etc.). That included fuel and ignition mapping as well as trans shift points and pressures + tq converter lockup points. Throttle was mechanical so there wasn't the option - or really the need - to mess with that - altho softening the pedal by removing the external spring vastly improved the feel of it.

Two of the BEST mods on that Falcon were removing the external spring on the TB and loosening the shifter handle and rotating it about 30 degrees - those things added a huge amount to driving enjoyment and my ability to drive it quicker - no tuning involved.

With the Sprint Booster in our TH I dont care what the figures end up being - it totally transforms the driving experience in all good ways - PERIOD! I really dont think I could cope with going back to not having it - and I now for certain my wife would definitely flatout refuse to drive it.

There's a difference between being FAST and being genuinely QUICK. I know for a fact the Sprint Booster doesn't make my TH faster but it definitely makes it quicker in all normal road situations and conditions.
 

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If I could buy a ready to rock OBD plug in module with optimised tune for std KL 3.2 V6 I'd happily pay $1000 for it - but no such thing exists so it's throttle conditioner at $350 FTW in the meantime...
 
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