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Factory 6 at the driver's side head with the EQ flat... for fun. I guess they do it for the bass. -5dB bass on the EQ didn't do much for the peak. It just brought the whole curve down past 100Hz. Really is too bad there are so few bands.

I wonder what the double dips flanking 1k are. Any ideas from our resident EE or pro installer? :smile:
 

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Discussion Starter #82
Nice. Ya an amp with built in crossovers would be a great way to do the fronts also, but the problem is I don't think those small inline ones have the crossovers too like most amps. The bummer with the Cherokee is the lack of space. I don't think the sub in the 9-speaker can do much, it is a tiny sealed sub (8"?) in about 0.3cuft or less of space. In comparison each door already has a 6x9 (7" speaker equivalent) with 1-2cuft behind it. To me the best use of space would be to run top quality 6x9s and add a compact amp somewhere. Either way, there are plenty of rattles that could be dealt with to clean up the sound also, and adding deadening to the door panels is always good.

If you do try my approach with the passive midbass. Technically the dash speaker should be inverted since it's an odd-order Butterworth filter, which is how I did it (swapped the leads on the dash speaker adapter). You can experiment with inverting the polarity on the dash speaker if it seems funny, the lower midrange should image much better with the polarity switch and the single inductor LPF on the door midbass.
 

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Discussion Starter #83
Factory 6 at the driver's side head with the EQ flat... for fun. I guess they do it for the bass. -5dB bass on the EQ didn't do much for the peak. It just brought the whole curve down past 100Hz. Really is too bad there are so few bands.

I wonder what the double dips flanking 1k are. Any ideas from our resident EE or pro installer? :smile:
Nice Omnimic :smile:

I think the peak at ~50 Hz is just the booming of the SUV cabin and that can't be fixed without external amps and EQ. I had the exact same thing in my measurements. The factory 3 bands isn't enough to do squat for corrections like that. Your dips around 1k are probably just the non-flat response of the stock speakers, notice mine looks a bit flatter.
 

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Good read. Thanks. I had to dust off the Omnimic. I bought it used for a really good price and intended to sell it after the last vehicle install, but I'm glad I kept it. Cool that our curves match rather well.

I've not settle on anything yet, but I've just about made up my mind to get the
JBL MS-A1004. It channels sums, has crossovers including bandpass, it's 100W per channel that's been verified on the bench in a youtube video I saw, and it is TINY.

I mocked up a cardboard version of that amp. It would fit nicely under the passenger side dash next to the glove box. That means almost no long wire runs and pulling apart of seats, carpet and trim!

For the rears, I'm likely doing as you suggest with 6X9 subs and definitely deadening all the doors as I go. Front is harder to decide on. I throw my ideas up and let you diagnose them. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #86
Good read. Thanks. I had to dust off the Omnimic. I bought it used for a really good price and intended to sell it after the last vehicle install, but I'm glad I kept it. Cool that our curves match rather well.

I've not settle on anything yet, but I've just about made up my mind to get the
JBL MS-A1004. It channels sums, has crossovers including bandpass, it's 100W per channel that's been verified on the bench in a youtube video I saw, and it is TINY.

I mocked up a cardboard version of that amp. It would fit nicely under the passenger side dash next to the glove box. That means almost no long wire runs and pulling apart of seats, carpet and trim!

For the rears, I'm likely doing as you suggest with 6X9 subs and definitely deadening all the doors as I go. Front is harder to decide on. I throw my ideas up and let you diagnose them.
I just saw Kenwood is coming out with a compact 4ch amp with crossovers. It's not as flexible as the JBL, but it's maybe half the price. This for the fronts, and then perhaps the even smaller one bridged for the rears... Interesting possibilities.

http://www.kenwood.com/usa/car/amplifiers/kac-m3004/spec.html
 

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I saw that amp a few days ago. I've been out so long I didn't realize all these little digital amps where available. RF also has the tiny little PBR300X2. Either could literally go in the glove compartment and you could easily put the second in the space next to the glove compartment.

You'll get more out of this than I:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6M-itzlRJY

Side note: I just ordered the CDT CL-69SUB/CF to try for the rears. They have refurbished sets on their site right now for $99. They only model to an F3 of 85HZ, but for the price and stock fit, I figured what the heck.
 

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Discussion Starter #88
I saw that amp a few days ago. I've been out so long I didn't realize all these little digital amps where available. RF also has the tiny little PBR300X2. Either could literally go in the glove compartment and you could easily put the second in the space next to the glove compartment.

You'll get more out of this than I:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6M-itzlRJY

Side note: I just ordered the CDT CL-69SUB/CF to try for the rears. They have refurbished sets on their site right now for $99. They only model to an F3 of 85HZ, but for the price and stock fit, I figured what the heck.
The RF amp sounds like more tricks for the switching type (Class D) amp topology and probably isn't anything that the other brands aren't already doing.

What parameters are you using to only get an 85 Hz f3 with that CDT 6x9 sub? I don't see modeling parameters on their website. Those drivers do look tough though! I think you would have to trim the plastic bowl in the Cherokee's doors to get them to fit though.
 

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Discussion Starter #91
Ah, good, with a low Qts like that and the Fs of 53 Hz it will be a shallow roll-off for those 6x9 subs which will play in very nicely with the cabin gain I was talking about before. The bass that you hear, feel, and measure will be far lower than 85 Hz. Let me know how it sounds, and definitely take another sweep with the Omnimic when those come in!

The minidsps are really flexible and used a lot in DIY home theater. That would also work :D
 

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Great, good to know. It's a very shallow roll off. The graph shows just that.

I should get them by the beginning of next week. I'll update then.

Back to swooning over the minidsp.
 

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CL-69SUB CF

I think there are different versions of it with and without the phase plug.

There's an outside chance I can use a 3/4"spacer. I checked briefly when they got here and it looks like it might work and still clear the door card. If not, I'm not against chopping off the brace.

In the meantime, I just took delivery of two MiniDSP 2x4. Could not help myself! I'm going to play with them inside first, then I'll decide if want to try them in the car.
 

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adapter needed for amp to headunit?

I am trying to figure out what sort of adapter I need to connect my 5 channel amp to the stock head unit (6.4)- Did you custom wire it or is there an adapter that works? (provides RCAs)
 

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@Wolfz23 1000x better is in the ear of the beholder. At one point or another you are just throwing good money after bad in search of the elusive "sound stage" and proper "imaging". It's all good fun but in the end it's a project never finished and a bank account drained. That's just my own burned out opinion of course. I'm happy to listen to the engine in my car these days and just tool along the highway on occasion.
I have a similar amp, the Clarion XC1300 (I think that's the model #). It was beyond a night and day difference in both how loud the speakers can go, power to the speakers and the sound quality. I got the amp new for $180 and had a local shop that I always go to for this kind of thing install it BEHIND the uconnect5 head unit... that's how small it is.

My entire system in my Cherokee is JL for the most part except my front speakers which I will likely change out for a pair of 6x9 JL speakers as well as the tweeters...
 

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Discussion Starter #99
6-speaker upgrade using the Fusseli method

Here's a summary of what I did for anyone wanting to do the same thing. Note that I have:
  • Uconnect 8.4A (not sure if there are power or filtering differences vs. 6-speaker on other versions)
  • Alpine Type-R SPR-69, I trust the Type-R brand and like the slim fit and low weight of the polymer frame and neo magnet. (For the KL, slim speakers is important.)
  • JL Audio C2-350x, the nicest 3.5" 2-way I could find
  • Speaker adapters to plug directly into the vehicle wiring
  • Cheap sound deadening (i.e. dynamat, I used 3M) added to the doors, and thin foam sealer/gasket for the speaker flanges
GOAL
  • Greatly upgrade sound quality, or clarity and bass, of the stock 6-speaker sound system on a KL
  • Use factory speaker locations for a stealth/stock appearance
  • Implement a 3-way speaker system for the front using a midbass in the doors, and shift the primary sound stage to the dash. Transition (crossover point between the dash and doors) to the midbass no higher than about 200 Hz for best blending.
Option A (I presently run this)
  • Minimal added equipment; no amps, etc.
  • Passive crossovers
  • Modify a 6x9 coaxial to act as simply a 6x9 midbass
  • Convert the dash 3.5" from fill-speakers to the primary front soundstage
  • Natural roll-off of the tiny 3.5" woofer completes the simple crossover to the midbass
1) Rear doors: easy, drop in the new 6x9 of choice
2) Dash
- Wire in the speaker wire harness in opposite polarity for the 3.5". This is counter intuitive, but it will sound better since we are adding an odd-order crossover slope to the woofer in the door. If you don't believe me, try it both ways and decide yourself.
- Drop in the new 3.5" coaxial or full-range speaker of choice
3) Front doors
- Remove/disable the tweeter on the 6x9 if using a coaxial (not needed for a midbass 6" or 6x9 speaker)
- Solder and wire in a series inductor (1.0 mH for the 4 ohm SPR-69) on the 6x9 to achieve a 1st-order lowpass filter at about 200 Hz

This this setup, I like this on the EQ:
Bass +5
Mid +2
Treble -1

Frequency response measurement that I took after installation is shown below. It's good to below 30 Hz, which is amazing without a sub.

Option B (I haven't done this yet)
  • Drop-in new speakers
  • Figure out how to separate the dash and front door speaker wiring, to run the dash/front/rear pairs as 6 channels instead of 4
  • Use a 6-channel, or similar, amp with active crossover slopes
  • Leave the 6x9 speakers intact, with no mods, and use active filters to turn them into midbass and achieve the same as Option A
  • HPF the dash at 200 Hz, and LPF the front (or both) doors at 200 Hz
  • Advantage of this is the option of doing more EQ to flatten and contour the bass response. See how peaky/boomy it is in my measurement without any, this is the nature of an in-car sound environment.
 

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I connected an amp to my stock 8" head unit. What sounds better and delivers a better signal to the amp? Using the straight hl outs or a Line out converter? The reason I am asking is, I am using the high level out and I am not at all impressed with the sound of the powered sub. I'll try a LOC and see if that tightens things up. I've installed at least 5 car amps in my life and have a good Idea of what it's about. This, however, is the first time I've had to use a stock hu. I miss my old patriot where I could install a head unit.
 
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