[Lindy]

Blower full speed is a no ESS condition. Gotcha !! Nah seriously, I hear you. ESS is a tough sell and doesn't go very far, for emIssions reduction. But it's a start... pun intended

Just had a thought....yeah, it happens sometimes, haha.....does the Jeep ESS system have a capacitor in it? That would seem like a good way to store some energy for a start.

 

[Flybynightcru]

Just had a thought....yeah, it happens sometimes, haha.....does the Jeep ESS system have a capacitor in it? That would seem like a good way to store some energy for a start.

No capacitor, it's far more complicated than that...LOL!!!😎

 

[Lindy]

No capacitor, it's far more complicated than that...LOL!!!😎

I thought it was a good thought and Google says I was on to something....

Battery-based start-stop systems can be enhanced with an ultracapacitor-based voltage stabilization system implementation which enables the burst power needed to restart the engine, which reduces high currents and repeated cycling that can shorten battery life.

https://www.edn.com/general-motors-chooses-ultracapacitors-for-start-stop/

 

[Flybynightcru]

I thought it was a good thought and Google says I was on to something....

Battery-based start-stop systems can be enhanced with an ultracapacitor-based voltage stabilization system implementation which enables the burst power needed to restart the engine, which reduces high currents and repeated cycling that can shorten battery life.

https://www.edn.com/general-motors-chooses-ultracapacitors-for-start-stop/

Makes a hell of lot more sense to me than the current Jeep setup does. With that being said...

 

[Flybynightcru]

Update Alert...
Just picked up the Trailhawk from the dealer. So, the 3rd battery test in 3 days done by the dealer showed 68% healthy, CCA on spec, loaded down to 9.2 volts, and charge and retest result. Apparently that was good enough for them. They were leaning more toward the IBS causing the issue, more than the battery, and apparently, there's no way to test the IBS??? Alrighty then...Long story short, got the new battery, because of the 3 different battery tests, which I conveniently brought the first two with me, they suspected something wonky going on, with the exceptional inconsistencies of the test results.
They also put a new IBS, because apparently, that's the only way to test whether it's functional??? OK...So, I'm now happy to report, new battery, new IBS, pulled out of the dealership, hit the first red light, and low and behold, ESS working again, charging voltage down, back to normal. Now we wait until morning, and see if the damn heated seats come on like they're supposed to...We shall see!!! Wonder what the repair bill would have been for all that had it not been under warranty??? My service review is full of 0's in the cost breakdown...LOL!!!😎

 

[sanghill]

68% healthy is good??? I don't think so. Only 100% works for me.
Their WiTech should be able to check the IBS.
Need a reality check!!!

 

[Flybynightcru]

68% healthy is good??? I don't think so. Only 100% works for me.
Their WiTech should be able to check the IBS.
Need a reality check!!!

Ya, no kidding...I've drawn my own conclusions that the battery was fast on its way to catastrophic failure, or something, because of the completely randomly inconsistent readings I've been getting for the last 3 days. As for the IBS, who knows if it was involved in the weirdness at all, but it's got a new one now. Glad I wasn't paying for it...😎

 

[Mark_]

68% healthy is good??? I don't think so. Only 100% works for me.
Their WiTech should be able to check the IBS.
Need a reality check!!!

68% should be good enough for ESS to work, but expect long "battery charging" periods. No ESS happens at roughly 60% health (anecdotal --> source = me lol). But the inconsistencies in those test results is puzzling. Dealerships (FCA) use the GR8 battery tester/charger machine, which should be a reliable testing unit (service advisors drool over this machine).

@Flybynightcru : The part about not being able to test the IBS is bull.... wiTECH can test it easily, they just don't know it (??).

So they threw parts at it. With what you've told us about their t-shooting approach, I say GR8 (haha), in this case throwing in a new IBS is just a way to avoid an extra visit, perhaps

 

[MikeR.]

At 68 percent, it was for sure the battery. It will probably be good to go, but don't be surprise if the first day or two it doesn't work. Batteries sitting on the shelf aren't 100 percent and it takes time for the system to adjust to everything. At least they replaced it. You should be good to go now. While the battery thing is annoying, its a lot less annoying then going until the battery won't start when you need it.

 

[Flybynightcru]

Update Alert,
All systems normal again.
Verdict,
Add automatic heated seats failure to operate correctly to the long list of "Weird stuff that happens" when the battery is beginning to fail.
Original battery, factory Mopar #1, lifespan, 14 months of service. Unacceptable, to say the least, but hey, we've already determined around here for quite a while, the factory Mopar batteries are "Sub Par" at best, and our KL's require a much better battery than the ones they come with. They might be fine in Grandpas old CJ5, but they are not worth a $*#t on the "Rolling Computers" of today, but most of us already know that. You hear us @JeepCares??? Obviously, Jeep doesn't care, or they would have probably changed battery suppliers a long time ago, among a few other things!!! It's a damn good thing we as modern Jeep owners are a resourceful bunch!!!

 

[UN4GTBL]

Glad to hear all is better for you now.

I'm on battery #3, and it's showing signs of failure now too. You'd think after being charged overnight with a battery charger, and then a 2 hour drive, the ESS would start working again lol

 

[Mark_]

Glad to hear all is better for you now.

I'm on battery #3, and it's showing signs of failure now too. You'd think after being charged overnight with a battery charger, and then a 2 hour drive, the ESS would start working again lol

Again ??!! Holy... This is insane... Did they ever look for an abnormal parasitic power drain ? I mean, a bad cell happens (should be rare), but in your case, it can't be 3 in a row, in such a short period of time...

 

[MikeR.]

Glad to hear all is better for you now.

I'm on battery #3, and it's showing signs of failure now too. You'd think after being charged overnight with a battery charger, and then a 2 hour drive, the ESS would start working again lol

While charging overnight could help if its simply not charged, its still going to have a greater voltage drop on startup than a healthy battery. Honestly, I think that's one of the things the IBS is looking for. While your battery might be fully charged (based on its reduced capacity), the IBS is determining remaining health is not adequate. It knows the battery needs more charge, but it won't take it, so thats why it keeps saying charging. For ESS, its going to need the engine to start as fast as possible, and determines the battery cannot supply adequate power once it has aged to maybe 65 or 70 percent of its original capacity. While it might be able to start the car with an even lower capacity, its going to shut off systems to try and bring the battery back up over what it things the minimum capacity should be. ESS is just one of the first indicators the battery is not as healthy as it once was. While we are getting 2 to 3 years of life before ESS stops working, maybe its aging just as fast, but we aren't going until the jeep won't start, which could be another 12 to 18 months down the road. So take you 2 to 3 years, and add another year or two. Now your getting 3 to 5, like other cars, but say your running the battery down to 40 percent of its useful life, putting more strain on the the wiring, starter, and alternator (as volts go down, amps go up), and finding out its dead when you go to start it up and it won't crank.

 

[Mark_]

While charging overnight could help if its simply not charged, its still going to have a greater voltage drop on startup than a healthy battery. Honestly, I think that's one of the things the IBS is looking for. While your battery might be fully charged (based on its reduced capacity), the IBS is determining remaining health is not adequate. It knows the battery needs more charge, but it won't take it, so thats why it keeps saying charging. For ESS, its going to need the engine to start as fast as possible, and determines the battery cannot supply adequate power once it has aged to maybe 65 or 70 percent of its original capacity. While it might be able to start the car with an even lower capacity, its going to shut off systems to try and bring the battery back up over what it things the minimum capacity should be. ESS is just one of the first indicators the battery is not as healthy as it once was. While we are getting 2 to 3 years of life before ESS stops working, maybe its aging just as fast, but we aren't going until the jeep won't start, which could be another 12 to 18 months down the road. So take you 2 to 3 years, and add another year or two. Now your getting 3 to 5, like other cars, but say your running the battery down to 40 percent of its useful life, putting more strain on the the wiring, starter, and alternator (as volts go down, amps go up), and finding out its dead when you go to start it up and it won't crank.

I agree 100%.
Problem with @UN4GTBL is that he has a 2019 and is on his 3rd AGM battery, which seems to be going. That... is insane.

 

[MikeR.]

I agree 100%.
Problem with @UN4GTBL is that he has a 2019 and is on his 3rd AGM battery, which seems to be going. That... is insane.

I agree that does seem excessive. I just bought my jeep with 35K miles. When I picked it up to drive it 350 miles home, I had the charging message for about 2 hours. I didn't realize at the time the issues with the batteries. I just figured it had been sitting at the dealership and not driven much, though 2 hours did seem excessive. First cold snap mine stopped working again. I had just passed over the 36K mile mark the day before. I went ahead and got the X2 Power since it was only about $100 more than other option, plus they had a 10% discount at the time. Hopefully this will last longer, but either way, it has a 5 year warranty, so I should be covered.

 

[Lindy]

Glad to hear all is better for you now.

I'm on battery #3, and it's showing signs of failure now too. You'd think after being charged overnight with a battery charger, and then a 2 hour drive, the ESS would start working again lol

3 of them on a 2019? Shut the front door!

 

[Lindy]

Add automatic heated seats failure to operate correctly to the long list of "Weird stuff that happens" when the battery is beginning to fail.

Crazy isn't it? After all I've read here, if my brakes start squeaking I think my knee jerk reaction will be to get a new battery.

 

[UN4GTBL]

Again ??!! Holy... This is insane... Did they ever look for an abnormal parasitic power drain ? I mean, a bad cell happens (should be rare), but in your case, it can't be 3 in a row, in such a short period of time...

No, they've only ever replaced them, after seeing the battery couldn't charge properly anymore.

While charging overnight could help if its simply not charged, its still going to have a greater voltage drop on startup than a healthy battery. Honestly, I think that's one of the things the IBS is looking for. While your battery might be fully charged (based on its reduced capacity), the IBS is determining remaining health is not adequate. It knows the battery needs more charge, but it won't take it, so thats why it keeps saying charging. For ESS, its going to need the engine to start as fast as possible, and determines the battery cannot supply adequate power once it has aged to maybe 65 or 70 percent of its original capacity. While it might be able to start the car with an even lower capacity, its going to shut off systems to try and bring the battery back up over what it things the minimum capacity should be. ESS is just one of the first indicators the battery is not as healthy as it once was. While we are getting 2 to 3 years of life before ESS stops working, maybe its aging just as fast, but we aren't going until the jeep won't start, which could be another 12 to 18 months down the road. So take you 2 to 3 years, and add another year or two. Now your getting 3 to 5, like other cars, but say your running the battery down to 40 percent of its useful life, putting more strain on the the wiring, starter, and alternator (as volts go down, amps go up), and finding out its dead when you go to start it up and it won't crank.

Agreed. My concern has always been around it starting, otherwise I wouldn't care that the ESS doesn't work. My battery charger doesn't seem to be able to fully charge the Cherokee battery either, it just loops around from full to low battery now, and then back up again. When I went on that 2 hour drive to test it, I specifically didn't turn the Jeep off the entire time, as I wanted it to have a variety of engine load circumstances to recharge the battery. About a year ago, I was away for a couple weeks, and predictably the ESS didn't start when I came back and started driving the Jeep again, but it did start up initially with no problems, and after about a day of my normal driving ESS was back to working again. Once my warranty stops replacing batteries, I'll go get a high quality one, but in the mean time, I want FCA to foot the bill for another mediocre battery. I wish that we could see what the IBS sees on the EVIC, but I am thankful that knows to not activate ESS now.

My Caliber actually left me stranded one day after work, and I had to pull out my jumper pack to get it started again, so I could drive to go buy another battery. (the actual replacement of the battery was made very difficult thanks to dumbler's cheap battery tie down - several hours and the front bumper pulled off later, I had it out and replaced) Worst case I could have called CAA or bump started it myself.

I agree 100%.
Problem with @UN4GTBL is that he has a 2019 and is on his 3rd AGM battery, which seems to be going. That... is insane.

FWIW, I count the one installed at the factory + 1st replacement + 2nd replacement as 3 batteries total.

I've had my 2019 for about 2.75 years now.

I replaced the battery in my Caliber twice as well, but that was over 11+ years, and I had a very short commute back then. The Cherokee has a longer commute, and has been on several 12+ hour road trips in it's life.

 

[MUEngineer08]

Now, I've searched around before I decided to throw this out there, and found nothing. So, I've always had the heated and cooling seats/heated steering wheel set to auto on for all starts, and it has worked flawlessly until the last few mornings. The strange thing is that it's working every other time I start the car throughout the day. It's just that first startup in the morning, when you expect it to work considering, it's been consistently in the teens every morning for the last week or so. It's just that first startup, weird right??? Has anyone else experienced this seemingly unexplainable situation???

My Challenger and my Jeep were/are doing the same thing. Only the first start.

I have seen something common in both vehicles.

At first I thought it was because we keep our garage heated during the winter and its roughly 50 inside the garage all the time. 50 degree is too warm for the seats and steering wheel to come on.

When they were parked outside this didn't seem to happen, so I assumed everything was working as designed.

Then we had a week where the outside temperatures at 4 pm were above 40. Every time I went to start either vehicle when it was parked outside that week, even if it was 20 degrees outside in the morning, no heated seat no steering wheel. Both vehicles were still registering the previous evening's outside temperatures for 3-5 minutes after starting.

Recently its got much colder and it is cold enough in the evening to be below the heated seat auto on temp and the Jeep is turning them on like it should. But the Jeep is still showing the outside temperature from the previous evening after start up for 3 or so minutes.

My 2017 and 2018 JGC and 2017 Challenger, 2019 Charger Scat Pack changed the temperature instantly when the vehicles were started, remote or otherwise and if it was cold, the seat and steering wheel came on. In our last house with an unheated garage, they came on every day when I started the car in the morning December-March.

I have also confirmed my buddy's 2018 Cherokee isn't doing this. His is turning the seat on no issues.

This is not normal behavior for FCA vehicles and I've reported it to my dealer. They have received similar complaints.

 

[Flybynightcru]

My Challenger and my Jeep were/are doing the same thing. Only the first start.

I have seen something common in both vehicles.

At first I thought it was because we keep our garage heated during the winter and its roughly 50 inside the garage all the time. 50 degree is too warm for the seats and steering wheel to come on.

When they were parked outside this didn't seem to happen, so I assumed everything was working as designed.

Then we had a week where the outside temperatures at 4 pm were above 40. Every time I went to start either vehicle when it was parked outside that week, even if it was 20 degrees outside in the morning, no heated seat no steering wheel. Both vehicles were still registering the previous evening's outside temperatures for 3-5 minutes after starting.

Recently its got much colder and it is cold enough in the evening to be below the heated seat auto on temp and the Jeep is turning them on like it should. But the Jeep is still showing the outside temperature from the previous evening after start up for 3 or so minutes.

My 2017 and 2018 JGC and 2017 Challenger, 2019 Charger Scat Pack changed the temperature instantly when the vehicles were started, remote or otherwise and if it was cold, the seat and steering wheel came on. In our last house with an unheated garage, they came on every day when I started the car in the morning December-March.

I have also confirmed my buddy's 2018 Cherokee isn't doing this. His is turning the seat on no issues.

This is not normal behavior for FCA vehicles and I've reported it to my dealer. They have received similar complaints.

Replaced the battery under warranty, everything is fine now. Resting Voltage is King on these things...LOL!!!⚡⚡😎