2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums banner

21 - 40 of 73 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #21
Hmmm. Yeah, sounds like an rare and obscure glitch indeed. Maybe... a next UConnect update will cure this. Or a BCM update. Come to think of it, why not just ask your service person if they've ever heard of this, they can search their database perhaps.
Otherwise I would sit on it just like you're planning to do.
Ya, I might call down there and ask them about it. I'm still not ruling out the battery, it is going on 25 months since the build date, so who knows. I'm getting another battery test done this afternoon. Like you noted, 98% health report on a brand new battery is possible, but I'm still sceptical about a 2+ year old battery even testing close to 98%, with full CCA power still. Is it possible??? Maybe, but it's highly unlikely. We shall see...
 

·
Registered
2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Elite 2.0L, w/factory tow, sunroof, technology group,
Joined
·
60 Posts
Ya, I might call down there and ask them about it. I'm still not ruling out the battery, it is going on 25 months since the build date, so who knows. I'm getting another battery test done this afternoon. Like you noted, 98% health report on a brand new battery is possible, but I'm still sceptical about a 2+ year old battery even testing close to 98%, with full CCA power still. Is it possible??? Maybe, but it's highly unlikely. We shall see...
I would lean toward battery. I just replaced mine on my 2019. I never had it tested and it was starting just fine. I was running into the ESS not available battery charging when it was below about 45 degrees. It would stay like that a few days until it warmed back up and then started working again. Resting voltage at the batter was right at, or just below 12.6 volts. After looking it up, probably should have been closer to 12.85. Put a new one in and haven't had any issues, and ESS works within a few minutes once the engine gets warm enough, even down in the 30s (I'm in FL, so it doesn't get much colder than that). I went with the X2Power from Battery Plus. After putting in the new one, I did noticed it started up just a touch faster, and the when watching the voltage dropped a lot less while using ESS, and especially during the ESS restart.

Its very possible it could be something entirely, but the electronics to seem to be very sensitive battery issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
I would lean toward battery. I just replaced mine on my 2019. I never had it tested and it was starting just fine. I was running into the ESS not available battery charging when it was below about 45 degrees. It would stay like that a few days until it warmed back up and then started working again. Resting voltage at the batter was right at, or just below 12.6 volts. After looking it up, probably should have been closer to 12.85. Put a new one in and haven't had any issues, and ESS works within a few minutes once the engine gets warm enough, even down in the 30s (I'm in FL, so it doesn't get much colder than that). I went with the X2Power from Battery Plus. After putting in the new one, I did noticed it started up just a touch faster, and the when watching the voltage dropped a lot less while using ESS, and especially during the ESS restart.

Its very possible it could be something entirely, but the electronics to seem to be very sensitive battery issues.
You got yourself a darn fine battery there (thin plate pure lead AGM). Resting voltage hasn't been a reliable value on these Cherokees when assessing battery health ; too many variables, outside temp being a big one along with resting period, making sure nothing is On, etc... 12.6V would typically be Ok, but then again it depends...

@Flybynightcru :

25 months on an OEM battery is not that long... unless you live in a hot climate, like NV. Remaining CCA can be a tricky reading because most batteries will test 50 - 100CCA above spec when new, sometimes even more ; so say your OEM battery says 700CCA, new it might test at 800+, then 2 years later it might show close to spec... which in reality means it has lost some power. But from what I've seen with mine, battery health above 65% allows ESS to work, though "battery charging" periods get longer and longer as health declines.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
Ya, I might call down there and ask them about it. I'm still not ruling out the battery, it is going on 25 months since the build date, so who knows. I'm getting another battery test done this afternoon. Like you noted, 98% health report on a brand new battery is possible, but I'm still sceptical about a 2+ year old battery even testing close to 98%, with full CCA power still. Is it possible??? Maybe, but it's highly unlikely. We shall see...
My battery would be the same age as yours and my battery tester indicates more CCA than the rated figure. Then again, I'm only driving my Jeep 6 months of the year without using ESS and when in storage it has a battery maintainer on it around the clock. So I'm expecting a better life span than what a typical year round daily driver might get. Time will tell...

I was hoping it was your temp sensor reading high, in which case you could of gotten it replaced under warranty. At this point I think it's worth a call to the dealer, but if it's a problem they haven't seen and fixed before, I would just live with it. The good news is that both the seats and steering wheel warm up really fast when they are activated, so it's not like you'll be getting frost bite. ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flybynightcru

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #25
Update Alert!!!

So I had a battery test done at a different location, and what do you know, "Houston, we have a problem"!!! I knew that first test was too good to be true!!! No way any battery that's been running around in a damn KL for 2+ years is going to test 98%. I think you're lucky if a fully charged, brand new Northstar, fresh off the shelf, and never been installed tests 98%!!! So, test results #2, on a MUCH better testing device BTW, confirmed my suspicion, especially after I checked resting voltage this morning before the first startup, 12.2 volts, hmmm... Started up fine, and didn't sound slow. Drove 30 miles, meanwhile, ESS still says charging for like the 3rd day now. So, I immediately checked resting voltage again 20 seconds after just driving 30mi, and we're at 12.5 volts. Checked it again 20 min. later, and we're back down to 12.2. This was all before test #2, and it just screamed bad cell to me...
So now, test results #2, health 77%, CCA still at spec, explains the normal sounding startup. Loaded, it dropped to 9.6, which is pretty much teetering on the line, and guess what, not good, not bad, we got the old "Charge and Retest"!!!
Well, we know it's charging, cuz the voltmeter also been running a little higher than normal in the mid 14's. So I called my guy at my dealer, didn't say anything about the test results until after I just told him about the no ESS. and the heated seats not coming on first thing in the morning, and without question or any of of the rest of the apparently normal for a lot of you, Service Advisor BS, and associated drama, he said bring it in tomorrow, and they'll swap it out in about 20 minutes for me...Now that my friends is how reputable dealerships work!!! I freaking love these guys!!! How many of the rest of you got a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty free, just for buying from that dealer??? I did!!! So, let's see if that new battery fixes everything. I'm going out on a limb and gonna say ya.
To be continued...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
Update Alert!!!

So I had a battery test done at a different location, and what do you know, "Houston, we have a problem"!!! I knew that first test was too good to be true!!! No way any battery that's been running around in a damn KL for 2+ years is going to test 98%. I think you're lucky if a fully charged, brand new Northstar, fresh off the shelf, and never been installed tests 98%!!! So, test results #2, on a MUCH better testing device BTW, confirmed my suspicion, especially after I checked resting voltage this morning before the first startup, 12.2 volts, hmmm... Started up fine, and didn't sound slow. Drove 30 miles, meanwhile, ESS still says charging for like the 3rd day now. So, I immediately checked resting voltage again 20 seconds after just driving 30mi, and we're at 12.5 volts. Checked it again 20 min. later, and we're back down to 12.2. This was all before test #2, and it just screamed bad cell to me...
So now, test results #2, health 77%, CCA still at spec, explains the normal sounding startup. Loaded, it dropped to 9.6, which is pretty much teetering on the line, and guess what, not good, not bad, we got the old "Charge and Retest"!!!
Well, we know it's charging, cuz the voltmeter also been running a little higher than normal in the mid 14's. So I called my guy at my dealer, didn't say anything about the test results until after I just told him about the no ESS. and the heated seats not coming on first thing in the morning, and without question or any of of the rest of the apparently normal for a lot of you, Service Advisor BS, and associated drama, he said bring it in tomorrow, and they'll swap it out in about 20 minutes for me...Now that my friends is how reputable dealerships work!!! I freaking love these guys!!! How many of the rest of you got a Lifetime Powertrain Warranty free, just for buying from that dealer??? I did!!! So, let's see if that new battery fixes everything. I'm going out on a limb and gonna say ya.
To be continued...
Now you, sir, know how to tell a good story ;)

Honestly though, I don't think it's bad cell because resting voltage would be below 11V. Now, 12.5V after a drive is kinda low, knowing you probably got a decent surface charge ; in such a scenario you should see above 13V resting with a healthy battery.

Although 77% health isn't critical... hmm... but I won't argue the fact you could get rid of symptoms with more juice. If that is the case, I can't help but think these OEM AGMs are really crappy... :-/
 

·
Registered
2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Elite 2.0L, w/factory tow, sunroof, technology group,
Joined
·
60 Posts
Nice followup. One thing to keep in mind, when you go to open the door to pop the hood, you headlights will come on, so its not a true resting voltage. I would leave mine popped and then just lower the hood. That way I could come back and check it again without unlocking and opening the door, thereby turning the headlights back on momentarily. With not driving it as much and leaving it on a battery maintainer, I would have thought you would have gotten more life out of it as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #28
Now you, sir, know how to tell a good story ;)

Honestly though, I don't think it's bad cell because resting voltage would be below 11V. Now, 12.5V after a drive is kinda low, knowing you probably got a decent surface charge ; in such a scenario you should see above 13V resting with a healthy battery.

Although 77% health isn't critical... hmm... but I won't argue the fact you could get rid of symptoms with more juice. If that is the case, I can't help but think these OEM AGMs are really crappy... :-/
Ya, again, weird huh??? It was the low resting voltage after the drive that caught my attention. True, it's not testing terrible, but we've seen crazier things. I've double and triple checked all battery connections, and grounds, and those are good. Again, that just doubles down on our constant preaching about the slightest of inconsistencies in voltage is definitely going to, and always will immediately start shutting down functions, and cause weird things to start happening. It's just amazing how many different totally random things we've seen besides the normal no ESS, and like one or two other consistencies that always come down to the damn battery. It blows my mind!!! We'll see what happens when I get that free brand new battery in there. If there were any amount of pro rating, I would just buy an X2, or a Northstar and pass on the Mopar replacement. That could still happen...LOL!!!😎
 

·
Registered
2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk Elite 2.0L, w/factory tow, sunroof, technology group,
Joined
·
60 Posts
Well it sounds like you are still under warranty, so maybe it'll get covered. Mine went bad literally the next day after I hit 36,000 miles.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #30
Well it sounds like you are still under warranty, so maybe it'll get covered. Mine went bad literally the next day after I hit 36,000 miles.
I hate when that happens!!! Yes, I'm still under warranty...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
Well it sounds like you are still under warranty, so maybe it'll get covered. Mine went bad literally the next day after I hit 36,000 miles.
Ok now... 2019+ IBS also carries a new chip, named programmed battery obsolescence, heh.

In your case, probably a blessing in disguise since you got yourself an X2 Power / Northstar battery with peace of mind, for a while...
My battery started slowly going just before 3 years, but it wasn't bad enough so the dealer would have replaced it, probably. I stretched it out to 3.5 years, then got a Northstar. Happy camper !
 

·
Registered
2021 Jeep Cherokee TrailHawk
Joined
·
12 Posts
I wish I would have seen this thread earlier, I have a guaranteed fix for it...

Just get your wife to have her weird cravings first thing in the morning instead of in the evenings, and send her out to pick her things up. When she gets back the seat and wheel will be toasty warm for you 😉
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
For my edification please. I've never seen an ESS 'charging' light before, perhaps because I always turn it off at startup. But does the indicator light really have something to do with the 'charging' of the battery, or is it just an indication that the ESS system is deactivated for some reason?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
For my edification please. I've never seen an ESS 'charging' light before, perhaps because I always turn it off at startup. But does the indicator light really have something to do with the 'charging' of the battery, or is it just an indication that the ESS system is deactivated for some reason?
It's not a light, it's a message in the center display but it doesn't pop up, you have to go look for it. I have the standard display (EVIC) and I go the screen with tire pressures and then arrow right or left to get to the ESS status screen.
The message about battery charging simply means ESS is offline temporarily, the battery sensor and computer having decided the charging system needs to top up the battery, to allow ESS to happen.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
It's not a light, it's a message in the center display but it doesn't pop up, you have to go look for it. I have the standard display (EVIC) and I go the screen with tire pressures and then arrow right or left to get to the ESS status screen.
The message about battery charging simply means ESS is offline temporarily, the battery sensor and computer having decided the charging system needs to top up the battery, to allow ESS to happen.
Thanks for clarification.

So basically, if a person is in a lot of stop and go traffic and the ESS is constantly starting and shutting down the car, then eventually the alternator won't be able to keep a full charge on the battery because the engine/alternator is off so much. And at that point the ESS will shutdown for a while....

In other words, for those people who are in stop and go traffic every day for a couple hours, the poor battery is just being used and abused. No wonder they don't last long. And the cost of a new battery every 2 or 3 years isn't going to be offset by the little bit of gasoline money you are saving. 🙄

Just a dumb system for car manufacturers to help them meet their EPA requirements, but more costly for the consumer in the long run.

That's my opinion anyway, and I'm sticking with it. haha
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
Thanks for clarification.

So basically, if a person is in a lot of stop and go traffic and the ESS is constantly starting and shutting down the car, then eventually the alternator won't be able to keep a full charge on the battery because the engine/alternator is off so much. And at that point the ESS will shutdown for a while....

In other words, for those people who are in stop and go traffic every day for a couple hours, the poor battery is just being used and abused. No wonder they don't last long. And the cost of a new battery every 2 or 3 years isn't going to be offset by the little bit of gasoline money you are saving. 🙄

Just a dumb system for car manufacturers to help them meet their EPA requirements, but more costly for the consumer in the long run.

That's my opinion anyway, and I'm sticking with it. haha
The computer won't allow "abusive" battery draining, for ESS. On paper, ESS should not have a significant effect on an AGM battery's life ; some proof of this is with 2014 KL batteries dying kinda early, with no ESS at all. Yes, FCA has not provided a battery worthy of ESS, meaning they are slightly below what they should be, spec-wise, so life is a little shorter while it shouldn't be.

The battery charing condition, for ESS, also happens after a cold start, when high amps are delivered and overnight parasitic drain has had time to do its magic. And this condition will take longer and longer to correct itself as the battery ages ; I watched mine go from "nominal" condition to always "charging" over a 10 month period, roughly, and then I replaced the battery.

ESS will help produce a little less pollution, in most conditions, no matter what anyone says. And vehicles are designed accordingly, in most cases.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #37
Just a dumb system for car manufacturers to help them meet their EPA requirements, but more costly for the consumer in the long run.

That's my opinion anyway, and I'm sticking with it. haha
[/QUOTE]
Agreed!!! Now, I'm all for mankind to stop trying to kill the planet, and not continue to bury ourselves in our own $hi*, but recycled Dinosaur power, and emissions have come a long way. Yes, we still have work to do, and we'll probably be total EV eventually, but all the extra CO, and other various pollutants in the air that all those coal fired generating plants are going to be putting out, theoretically 3-4 times more than they are currently emitting. I think we need to worry more about Green Renewable Energy sources, rather than going full electric vehicles at the moment...JMO...
il_794xN.2174843987_tnur.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: UN4GTBL

·
Registered
Joined
·
309 Posts
The computer won't allow "abusive" battery draining, for ESS. On paper, ESS should not have a significant effect on an AGM battery's life ; some proof of this is with 2014 KL batteries dying kinda early, with no ESS at all. Yes, FCA has not provided a battery worthy of ESS, meaning they are slightly below what they should be, spec-wise, so life is a little shorter while it shouldn't be.

The battery charing condition, for ESS, also happens after a cold start, when high amps are delivered and overnight parasitic drain has had time to do its magic. And this condition will take longer and longer to correct itself as the battery ages ; I watched mine go from "nominal" condition to always "charging" over a 10 month period, roughly, and then I replaced the battery.

ESS will help produce a little less pollution, in most conditions, no matter what anyone says. And vehicles are designed accordingly, in most cases.
Oh well, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. ;)

Any time someone is sitting at a long stop light, with the engine off, radio blaring, fan at full speed, etc. it's putting a load on the battery which it otherwise wouldn't have to deal with. It seems to me that this alone will cause a battery to 'age' more quickly.

Personally I don't ever use ESS and I expect my battery to last longer because of that. But hey, I may be wrong, and if my battery craps out on me after 3 years I will be the first to post here about it and I expect and want you to give me a hearty, "I told you so!" :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,354 Posts
Discussion Starter #39
Ok, off to the dealer, this should be fun. If I'm lucky, I might even get lunch!!!
To be continued...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,761 Posts
Oh well, you and I will just have to agree to disagree on this subject. ;)

Any time someone is sitting at a long stop light, with the engine off, radio blaring, fan at full speed, etc. it's putting a load on the battery which it otherwise wouldn't have to deal with. It seems to me that this alone will cause a battery to 'age' more quickly.

Personally I don't ever use ESS and I expect my battery to last longer because of that. But hey, I may be wrong, and if my battery craps out on me after 3 years I will be the first to post here about it and I expect and want you to give me a hearty, "I told you so!" :)
Blower full speed is a no ESS condition. Gotcha !! Nah seriously, I hear you. ESS is a tough sell and doesn't go very far, for emIssions reduction. But it's a start... pun intended :p
 
21 - 40 of 73 Posts
Top