[Mark_]

AGM? Now thats news to me! I just walked in at autozone and they gave me a Duralast.

I do remember i was the one who put it in because they super busy that day. Seemed like a lot of car batteries died thAt day from the polar vortex.

Thank you for the inputs. I may have to check battery and connections this weekend.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Hi there,

Duralast Platinum = AGM. Duralast Gold = regular, and not for your 2015 (if it has Stop/Start, and it does). Check your bill, make sure you have the Platinum.

A few more things :
- As mentionned above, this type of problem can be related to the intelligent battery sensor (IBS) as well ; the IBS is that big black plastic thing on the negative battery cable just before the connector. If the IBS is faulty, it will cause ESS errors / warning lights. Only a dealership can diagnose the IBS, with their wiTECH scanner tool.

- Battery connectors are difficult to get on tight on these Jeeps because of bad design, so make sure the connectors are tight (grip them and try to move/rotate them).

So first check which battery you have. The battery cover prevents us from seeing battery stickers, so hopefully you have the paperwork to confirm. If Platinum (good) then check your battery connectors. If tight, I would suspect the IBS is faulty...

 

[Mark_]

i may have to take you up on your offer. just had an oil change and mentioned the issue i had with AUTO STOP-START LED Light and the associate helping me was just clueless. he was stuck with the idea that it was a “safety” feature and that it can manually be turned on or off.

although the occurence of the LED light appearing may have been intermittent and sparingly, its still annoying that its a guessing game as to when it will appear and if it does, id have to turn the engine off and back on again.

im just afraid this issue will cause long lasting harm to the vehicle without me knowing it.


thanks for any advice or help you may be able to provide.

Hi again,

Having @JeepCares involved can help at the dealership, for sure.

Can you check one quick easy thing for me ? If you scroll through the center display menu, you should get to a screen where you have a message about why ESS is not functionning (when that indicator light is On). That menu would be : press *down* with your left thumb until you get to a screen with an ESS message. Write it down and let us know, if possible.

About long lasting harm : with this specific problem, it is unlikely. As stated before (back in June), the problem is possibly linked to the intelligent battery sensor, and that sensor's function is to monitor battery health, to allow ESS to activate. It also helps with charging, ddepending on battery state, but charging occurs anyway, without the battery sensor's input, so I wouldn't be too worried. But getting it resolved is a good idea...

If you want to get things moving with the dealership, ask them to check the IBS (intelligent battery sensor) with their wiTECH machine (that's their fancy scanner tool). There is a procedure with that tool to check on the IBS ; quick and simple test...

 

[Mark_]

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Thanks ! Could very well be the IBS...

 

[Mark_]

do i have to set an appointment up with the dealership the soonest?

From what I've seen/witnessed here on the forum, I would be tempted to say it is not a critical situation. ESS is a feature implemented to save a little fuel and produce a little less pollution. But no harm is getting this resolved asap, especially if you are worried.

 

[Mark_]

I'm glad I've stumbled on this thread!

I've been getting this alert on my 2016 TH w/ 42,000 miles recently as well. I've just been ignoring it because I've always had ESS disabled. Looks like it's time for a new battery. I had recently had my Jeep in the dealership for different issue and mentioned this notification to them and they had no clue what it was, stating they could not reproduce it! Sometimes dealerships know less than the customer!

Hey there,

Are you seeing a message in the center display that says something like "Stop/Start not available Battery charging" ? If so, then yeah it is probably the battery going. Most shops, big or small, can do a battery test in 2 minutes with an electronic tester (not the old carbon pile / resistor type). These little testers give numbers like CCA remaining, state of charge, state of health and internal resistance. They also arbritrarily spew out a *healthy* or *replace* result, which isn't very accurate, especially for Cherokee batteries. When state of health falls below roughly 60%, it's time, or when remaining CCA reads below 400.
There is a possibility it could be the intelligent battery sensor at fault here, not the battery, but for a 2016 a new battery wouldn't be a waste of money regardless

 

[Mark_]

No the error I'm seeing is "Stop/Start system unavailable". It goes away after the truck is turned off but it's annoying nonetheless. And it doesn't appear reliably, it's very random. I can't pinpoint any type of condition in which I could repeatably make it happen.

Thanks. Well... I don't think your battery is causing this, but then again maybe it is. Your 3/36 warranty is definitely over, so if the battery or IBS are at fault, it's not covered unless you have an extended warranty. There are a few things you can do :
- Have the battery tested.
- Have the IBS (intelligent battery sensor) tested at a dealership (they have a procedure with their wiTECH scan tool to check it).
- Wait it out a bit... see if things progress.

Depending on your driving habits, your battery could still last up to a year, maybe more (in your state, not too warm there). Mine was almost dead after 3.5 years but I do a lot of short trips.
That's all I've got

 

[Mark_]

OMG, did I forget to read the fine print? :frown:
My 2015 TH display only said "Stop/Start not available", nothing about the battery. And, it only appeared after driving for more than 90 minutes in one sitting; hence, I didn't see it much. Well, today I'm a believer that it's the battery. I was almost left stranded with a dead battery. After verifying all the accessories were off, I bearly had enough juice to turn the engine over and make it home safely. Apparently, I'm going to need a new battery after 4 years and 98,500 miles.

Well, I've seen a few different messages about ESS in mine, but never just *Stop/Start unavailable*. Shortest message I see is *Stop/Start not ready*, and that one is a mystery because it usually corrects itself in a few seconds, no idea how/why. I have teh basic display, not the premium display you guys have (TH, Limited and Overland) so maybe the wording is different in yours... Yeah 4 years is about average..

Add me to the list. 16 with 69k. ESS stopped working about 2 weeks ago, with "Stop/Start not available Battery charging" message in the dic. Disappointed that I may need a battery after only 3 years, last vehicle went 200k and 9 years on original battery.

Did ESS stop working completely ? That's a little odd, mine started out very slowly in March of last year, with intermittent *battery charging* messages, gradually getting longer to work, over 6 months until it wouldn't work at all (always with the battery charging message). I replaced the battery last January and it was really done... So if your ESS has quit completely, quickly, there may be something else at play, like the IBS. Do you have a battery charger at home ? That could help with t-shooting : if you charge it overnight and ESS is back online the next morning, then you'll know it's the battery with more certainty..

 

[Mark_]

My EVIC said the operating voltage was 13.7v, but I decided to put it on the charger anyway Wednesday night. I got a full 14.4v by morning. Yesterday, the Snowhawk almost stranded me again. After a few words of encouragement it fired up and I was on my way to ski country. The snow level is down to 7000 ft :smile: after the last storm.

This morning it is at 14.4v, resting is at 12.1v. I can't decide if I have a battery problem or an electrical problem. Thoughts? If I don't buy a replacement battery this weekend (recommendations?), I'll have it checked at my next free oil change and rotation.




I guess I'll be doing more research in the off hours. :frown:

OEM TH battery
https://www.group1autoparts.com/oem-parts/mopar-battery-bb0h7730ab/?c=Zz1lbGVjdHJpY2FsJnM9YmF0dGVyeSZpPVBSMTUxMzU1JnI9MSZhPWplZXAmbz1jaGVyb2tlZSZ5PTIwMTUmdD10cmFpbGhhd2smZT0zLTJsLXY2LWdhcw%3D%3D

Ok, a lot of things to address there :

1) Forget my post about Northstars up here in Canada. That was not relevant, especially about the group 27 Northstars which are crazy expensive and are not OEM fit (it is actually the 27F that will fit a Cherokee, not the 27M (marine) ; I pointed to that one becauswe it is the only (relabelled) group 27 Northstar sold by our Canadian Tire chain stores, was using it as a price example only). You guys can find a premium group 94R Northstar AGM (or the X2 Power clone at Batteries+) for under $300. Now there are very similar premium group 94R Odysseys (pure lead thin plate AGMs) at Autozone for $250.

2) 14.4V or 13.7V running can both be Ok, depending on many factors. *Running* means this is alternator output, not battery voltage per se. We can't determine battery health or state of charge when the engine is running, basically. If you had gotten running voltage in the 12V range or lower, then yeah charging system problem for sure. Not the case here.

12.1V resting voltage, however... is low. If you had zero drain on the battery when you checked it (no key in ignition, no lights etc..) then I'd say your battery is dying for sure.

Problem with these batteries, in a Cherokee, is that when they start to go, they don't neessarily die in a predictable way. I've heard members say they put theirs on a charger overnight with no benefit. That's likely because the BCM monitors battery health, meaning how it handles drains and charges, so even a freshly charged unhealthy battery would not *pass* system checks, and cause problems.

Suggesstions for a battery :

1) If you'd prefer spending under $200 for an OEM clone AGM (Johnson Controls flat plate AGM), then the lowest price I've seen lately is Autozone's Duralast Platinum group 94R ; they had a coupon thing going, not sure it is still in effect.

Ok I see Walmart is still showing some H7 AGMs in stock, for $165 :
https://www.walmart.com/ip/EverStart-Platinum-AGM-Battery-Group-h7/40685088
(that is the exact same Johnson Controls group 94R AGM sold everywhere. H7 = group 94R)

You may find other stores that carry teh group 94R (or H7) AGMs, like Pep Boys, Advanvced Auto Parts, Sam's Club, etc...

2) The Northstar 94R. Hard to find right now, but the X2 Power (it's a Northstar) is available at Batteries+ for $279 (after a $20 mail-in rebate):
https://www.batteriesplus.com/product-details/auto_light-truck/battery/x2power/sli94ragmdp

3) The premium Odyssey 94R (pure lead flat plate) at Autozone. Oh ! It's down from $250 to $225 :
https://www.autozone.com/batteries-...ery-94r-850-group-size-94r-850-cca/937704_0_0
(just note that the price difference with Northstars may be partly because of the warranty : Odyssey is 3 years, Northstars (and X2 Power) are 5 years).

HTH

 

[Mark_]

Excellent feedback, thanks @Mark_!!!!

You bet

One last, and important thing I forgot. That last link to a Mopar battery : I believe that is not an AGM, just the regular flooded group 94R.

 

[Mark_]

start-stop not working

Hi,

Sorry, we'll need more than that.

 

[Mark_]

Checked battery with multimeter after getting home tonight, 12.4. Trickle charger hooked for an hour brought to 12.8. Took a pic of negative terminal, looks like some corrosion going on with the ibs sensor. Maybe a cause?!

Nah, I doubt it. That's just surface corrosion on a galvanized nut, it seems. The IBS is in the black plastic box.

About charging : I'm not liking your numbers there. 12.4V is kinda low, if everything off (no drain) and you'd come back from a drive within a few hours.

What type of battery charger are you using there ? If it's an older style model, say 10 or 15 Apms (or more), then yeah don't let it charge overnight, but you can let it do its thing for at least 4-6 hours. But if it's a newer style, *smart* type, then you should hook it up for at least 12 hours straight, to try to bring that voltage up even higher (above 13V for sure). After a decent charge, you'll be able to check on ESS to see if it'll work a bit more.

But from what you've told us so far, it does sound like a failing battery.

 

[Mark_]

If you plan to keep the vehicle with stop start long term, the best option is to find a guy that can turn off stop start permanently for $100.

Really ? Well, I disagree. Oh and would you be "that guy", by any chance ?

But you have the nickname, so I'll just step aside :wink:

 

[Mark_]

What i have

Thanks. That's a microprocessor controlled charger (aka smart). It's only 1.5 Amps which is not great for charging - it's more for maintaining/float charging - but it will charge when left hooked up long enough. If you can, hook it up for as long as you can (say 12+ hours) and maybe do that a few days in a row. After that, see how ESS behaves.

And don't worry about overcharging with those chargers ; they can be hooked up indefinitely.

 

[Mark_]

@Mark_, have you ever heard a steady chirp or beep when said battery is failing?

Mine finally stranded me today. Started at 14.4v, then went to 14.0v when I stopped for gas. Took a few tries to get going again. It was at 13.7v after work and took several tries to get going. Dead at 12.0v after groceries. Started to chirp/beep under the hood; maybe in the location of the PCM. Needed a jump to get going again. Currently on the charger. Beeping stopped after about two minutes on the charger. The beeping makes me think it is something other than the battery; IBS, generator, PCM, ECU, BCM, IRC, VSM, etc.??? Page 1845 of the FSM starts the discussion on the battery. Diagnostics makes no mention of chirp sound. :dodgy:

Battery charger says it is at 14.6v; EVIC says it is at 14.4v after 2 hours.

FYI, the actual EVIC message seen was "Stop/Start not available, Service Stop/Start system". No mention of "battery charging".

Yikes ! No, mine didn't chirp or beep, but I never got it that weak either.

Running voltages won't tell us anything about battery health, unfortunately. One meaningful voltage reading at this point would be : everything Off, remove negative battery terminal, wait a few hours and test voltage directly at battery posts with a multimeter.

I have no real idea why you are getting a "Service Stop/Start" and not "Battery charging" message... but it does appear that your battery is almost dead. For the gambling man in me, since you have the OEM battery still and with your symptoms, I'd get that battery load tested first, or... just replace it (money well spent at this point regardless).

BCM controls voltage regulation, maybe it's the one chirping. Would that mean it is faulty ? Maybe, maybe not, never seen this before...

What type of charger are you using ?

 

[Mark_]

Some Black and Decker smart charger the wife bought 13 years ago.

Thanks ! This one here : https://servicenet.blackanddecker.com/documents/English/Instruction%20Manual/90104835,VEC1093DBD.pdf

So it's a decent charger, can do multi-stage charging (smart) and up to 40 Amps (not mentionning the 110 Amp burst mode for starting). Does the charger give you any error codes when you charge the battery, say in 20 Amp mode, or any mode ? You may not get any from a near death battery though, because they do accept a charge, just not a substantial one...

 

[Mark_]

Yep, that's the one. No unusual charging. Just says FUL at the end.

I was going to upload an audiophile, but this site only does pictures and PDFs.

For the audio file, there are a lot of free hosting options, YouTube is one of them. Do you have a GMail account ? If so, you could use Google Drive (lots of free space). Or Microsoft OneDrive.

 

[Mark_]

Never got a chance to hook up for a long charge but I'm pretty certain it was the battery failing since it wouldn't start to come home from work this morning! Jump started and picked up the autocraft duralast platinum agm from advance on the way home. Purchased in the parking lot online with 25% off coupon and came to $162 .

Yep, that sounds like a dying battery for sure. Good move, good price too !

Just make sure the battery connectors are on nice and tight, which isn't very easy to do with these specific connectors. Trick is to twist them down as much as you can on the post before tightening the nut. You can check tightness by applying twisting force on a connector (with your hand only) and see if it moves ; if it does move, best to re-tighten.

Enjoy the new battery and worry-free starts :wink:

 

[Mark_]

Finally got into a dealer. Stupidly, I thought they would help diagnosis the chirp. They all heard it, but didn't know what it was. After 8 hrs, they final just said it was the battery. duh!

I went with the Duralast Platinum Battery H7-AGM Group Size 94R 850 CCA.

Heh... well who knows, maybe the IBS does go into chirp mode when voltage or some other parameter drops below a certain point...

Well good, now hopefully it's all fixed. Keep us posted !

 

[Mark_]

New battery did NOT fix the problem. Photo taken about 48 hours after new battery. The problem I have with lame service techs is that they never drive to root cause; they only do the bandaid approach. :frown:

Does your dealer know what the IBS is, and how to test it with their wiTECH tool ? That would be, to me, the next logical step.

 

[Mark_]

Just wanted to say thanks for the troubleshooting help. ESS is working great again with the new battery. Cel was on for a few days, guessing from disconnecting the battery, but went away after a few drive cycles. Guess this a 3-4 year maintenance item. Sad!

You bet.

Yeah, about 4 years average, depending on where you are and driving habits. It's the shortest battery life I've ever had on a vehicle myself (mine : 3.5 years).

Normal for the check engine light. When the battery is disconnected too long , it trips the CEL, then goes away after "x" amount of engine Run/Off cycles.

Enjoy your ESS :wink: