2014+ Jeep Cherokee Forums banner

Would you like to see a tuner option for the 3.2

  • Yes, I definitely would get a tuner for my 3.2

    Votes: 142 64.5%
  • No, I'm being stock

    Votes: 78 35.5%
221 - 240 of 247 Posts

·
Registered
2015 AD2 Latitude, 3.2
Joined
·
577 Posts
These Devices have been discussed for years on forums and online ( Tyler I’m sure you remember it on the Patriot forum too) with lots of people being on both sides of the fence. I have always thought of them as Snake Oil just simulating raised RPM and higher throttle input just like when you actually brake torque to really increase throttle signal which will start to change input and out put signals the computer senses and uses to adjust for performance and drivability. as others have said foot on the throttle should be doing the same thing.
So to me the real test would be to time brake torquing 0-60 times and then using one of these devices to test from a takeoff 0-60, if you get similar or identical times save your money and use your feet for free.
They could even brake torque with the device too and see what that does for fun.
Maybe my understanding or interpretation of this is crazy.
But their are people that think doing a Throttle relearn procedure make their Cherokee quicker for a day or 2, which to me is really crazy.
Speaking of that the term Quiker-quicker 0-60 times should be used
Faster is top speed .
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
Throttle relearn doesn't make the vehicle faster either. Never done Throttle relearn even after flashing the transmission and engine numerous times. Then again I never really had an issue with Throttle response either. All I did was have the Throttle sensitivity raised in sport mode. Again though those Throttle manipulation devices don't make a vehicle faster because they don't make more power. More power = faster vehicle or in the case of the cherokee KL less torque management (which those devices don't change) make a vehicle faster.

I find it funny they guy that started this dumpster fire hasn't been seen since he posted. Guess he doesn't want to come back and face the music
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
Hey all I can say is the Sprint Booster DOESN'T do what you can do with your foot - or more precisely you can't do with your foot what the SB does - THAT's why I carry on about it - what it does is really quite remarkable!. This stuff is all there in the vids - including the TB demo device that SHOWS it operates FULLY PROPORTIONALLY - it is NOT just whacking in 100% throttle at 50% pedal - as well as the BMW guy demonstrating it improving his times from standing starts - as well as the other guy also in a bimmer stating that it SHOULD be simply doing what you can with your foot but there's more to it... Are you guys even looking at those videos??

And in the context of this discussion - absolutely even I reckon there's 99.9% chance that Viper thing IS snake oil - but Tyler is wrong about the SB (something I know because I've GOT one and EXPERIENCE what it does) - and he was wrong about being able to just enable steering wheel paddles in the BCM (is really exciting when ur car appears to be bricked with messages like TCM ID INCORRECT WORD LENGTH etc...) - so sorry, altho again yes I do think he's 99.9% right about the Viper I'm more interested in people's EXPERIENCE with stuff (tho yeah that needs to be CREDIBLE experience).

There is an issue here between Tyler and me where he keeps making out I'm laying claims I'm not - I'll try again to clarify this for you Tyler - the Sprint Booster does NOT increase the performance of the vehicle (as YOU define performance), but it definitely improves HOW it performs - by ANY definition...
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
4,215 Posts
I find it funny they guy that started this dumpster fire hasn't been seen since he posted. Guess he doesn't want to come back and face the music
I find it funny that you're still standing in the dumpster fire, while the other guy had the logic to move on with his life.

Let's move on from this subject, and learn some civility.

Or, you know, "face the music."


Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
Hey, my position is simple - from EXPERIENCE I know of a product that does exactly what it claims to - and its a good thing - but armchair experts keep flatly refusing to accept that FACT - without actually trying it out themselves.

There has been a fundamental misunderstanding about what I've actually MEANT when I've referred to performance improvement - ie. it improves HOW the vehicle performs rather than improving the "actual" performance of the vehicle. I've assumed people understood what I meant and it's taken me awhile to realise there's been crossed wires there - my bad.

On the road I can tell you for free the improvement in HOW the vehicle performs with Sprint Booster feels every bit as good as actually having 50hp more under the hood - which is the whole point of the exercise for any average person.

And as far as this Viper thing - bogus power figures and no return info / response does have me fairly certain the guy and the product are not for real - and to be clear I haven't even myself ever thought there was really any chance it might be something worthwhile, but I'm not willing to just put someone down without giving them a hearing (Aussie thing again? - our "fair go" culture?). Being knowledgeable doesn't mean someone isn't ignorant or that they're necessarily very smart - and altho I respect Tyler's KNOWLEDGE I know for a fact he's not infallible so I'll respect his knowledgeable OPINION on things but excuse me for not accepting his dictates about things he doesn't back with solid experience as being undisputable facts.

This Viper thing is called "Viper X3 Performance Chip Sprint Throttle Booster Programmer Module..." - which sounds an awful lot to me like another type of pedal signal conditioner - similar to the actual Sprint Booster - so IF they've figured out how to do that thru the OBD port then bingo, the dude probably HAS experienced an improvement of some sort in HOW his KL performs. I'm inclined to agree with Tyler's info that it's very unlikely that could be done thru the OBD port, but who's to say the Viper people haven't worked it out - doing our own Proxi stuff and clearing codes etc. seemed impossible until it was worked out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
803 Posts
Are you guys even looking at those videos??
I did and all I hear is people saying the word, 'feel', which isn't proof of anything other than the users emotional reaction. It's all subjective and proof of nothing.

In addition, most of these people doing any kind of video reviews get a percentage of any sales they send the vendors way. That's why you see unique links posted for you to click thru on. So take a heavy grain of salt with any positive video review like that.

The video with the throttle body demonstration? Hmmm, is that gadget hooked up to a factory ECM? Of course not, so it is meaningless.

And the guy that did the 0-60 runs? Geez, even the manufacturer doesn't claim a performance improvement and he was using a manual transmission too, with the variables that introduces, so that video is worthless. I'm surprised you even posted it.

Personally, I wouldn't spend a dime on any performance modifications for my Jeep because there is nothing even remotely sporty, or performance orientated about it, nor is it supposed to be. I'm fortunate enough to have a couple other vehicles which provide that for me and even if the booster did make my Jeep 'feel' sportier, it would still be the dog it is.

Having said all that, if you are happy with your booster and it 'feels' better to you, then great, I'm happy for you!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
At the end of the day, any "mods" I do ARE to make the car drive and "feel" better - so yeah, absolutely I LOVE my Sprint Booster :cool:.

I mod for a car that's QUICK - not necessarily FAST (the two are quite different) - tho ideally both together are nice.

My turn to figjam a bit here: I've very successfully built a few very QUICK cars - with the last one being both quick AND fast - ie. I claim as a successful build a car comfortable for my wife to drive to the mall, easily capable of 280kph and theoretically able to do 300 or more - effortlessly able to pull out and cruise past another vehicle at 180kph withOUT having to reach WOT / able to effortlessly leave behind the same model but 10 years newer factory performance version car (1996 base model family sedan vs 2006 Tickford XR6 sport sedan) when driving for 40 minutes across town - WITHOUT breaking any laws and without really even putting much effort into it (other driver arrived a couple minutes later saying how he had ALL the stops out and pedal flat almost the whole time but just couldn't match me anywhere). Suspension work came into that as well - with my setup and tune (adjustable sway bars, relocated swing arm pivots + bilstein) being clearly superior to Tickford's...

On the TH I've very deliberately left factory springs in the front while I put Dobinsons HD in the rear (along with Bilstein B6 all round) - which has MUCH improved it's handling in tight quick mountain road driving - ie. pulled some understeer out of it and gives noticeably better control over final balance via the accelerator - especially with the Sprint Booster :love:

And in the broader context of some of the conflict I'm evidently running into on here: FWIW, as an aircraft mechanic (Licenced Aircraft Maintenance Engineer is the proper title - and I've held that for 32 years) I approach my work from the point of view that when I fix a fault, the repair is about 1% of the actual job - with the other 99% being understanding exactly and entirely WHY it happened - and a part of that is very deliberately being totally open minded to any and all possibilities - which reflects in my approach to being willing to actually look at and try things and seek absolute REAL LIFE confirmation about what's what. Ideas are nice but bulls hit walks while action talks. Armchair theorising - no matter how much technical "knowledge" is involved - as an aircraft mechanic can kill people if you let it close your mind. In short thru years of doing the job I do, I'm wired not to take anything for granted - even theoretical "debunking" of claimed results or causes - I INSIST on actual and rigorous and open minded investigation. I shamelessly hold great disdain for people when they are being close minded and bigoted - flybynightcru's little quotation absolutely nails my whole outlook on life "the eyes are useless, when the mind is blind"
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flybynightcru

·
Registered
2019 Trailhawk Elite 2.0T Olive Green Metallic Pearlcoat
Joined
·
4,938 Posts
On the TH I've very deliberately left factory springs in the front while I put Dobinsons HD in the rear (along with Bilstein B6 all round) - which has MUCH improved it's handling in tight quick mountain road driving
I've actually considered this very setup not so much for handling, but for towing my 3500lb trailer. Have been researching different springs, and spring rates from Eibach, and I'm definitely patiently waiting for the Bilstiens to be available again. It's good to know non towing handling was improved. Which Dobinson spring did you go with???😎
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
The springs I have in the rear are C29-151 which are lifted OEM replacement (+25mm on TH) - not actually the "Heavy Duty" ones ie. C29-199 which you need to always be carrying a certain weight else damage things. Sorry for the misnomer there but I've genuinely had the idea they were designated as HD. I'm sure I came across info from Dobinsons that they are higher rated than the factory rears - ie. the ft/lb-age comparison - but in a quick search I couldn't dig that up - I'll keep looking later on. I would imagine just being higher than OEM their rate will be a tad greater. I've got an extra inch of spacer lift on those rear springs (total +2" over std TH) with std factory front springs on the front - lifted in the knuckles to ride level with full gas and one person in front. The rear springs "feel" firmer ( ;) ) - especially noticeable hopping over speed bumps in mall carparks etc. and there is a slight but definite reduction in understeer pushing hard thru tight twisty roads which is all good for my driving style. I was intially really worried but found the wee beast MUCH easier to push hard thru the same very tight 180 switchbacks than before (and quieter - ie. no tyre screeching anymore... - well... very little, anyway...) - which says a lot I think - considering that's with it riding 2" higher (the handling change is in the order of what you'd expect from LOWERING it 2").
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flybynightcru

·
Registered
2019 Trailhawk Elite 2.0T Olive Green Metallic Pearlcoat
Joined
·
4,938 Posts
The springs I have in the rear are C29-151 which are lifted OEM replacement (+25mm on TH) - not actually the "Heavy Duty" ones ie. C29-199 which you need to always be carrying a certain weight else damage things. Sorry for the misnomer there but I've genuinely had the idea they were designated as HD. I'm sure I came across info from Dobinsons that they are higher rated than the factory rears - ie. the ft/lb-age comparison - but in a quick search I couldn't dig that up - I'll keep looking later on. I would imagine just being higher than OEM their rate will be a tad greater. I've got an extra inch of spacer lift on those rear springs (total +2" over std TH) with std factory front springs on the front - lifted in the knuckles to ride level with full gas and one person in front. The rear springs "feel" firmer ( ;) ) - especially noticeable hopping over speed bumps in mall carparks etc. and there is a slight but definite reduction in understeer pushing hard thru tight twisty roads which is all good for my driving style. I was intially really worried but found the wee beast MUCH easier to push hard thru the same very tight 180 switchbacks than before (and quieter - ie. no tyre screeching anymore... - well... very little, anyway...) - which says a lot I think - considering that's with it riding 2" higher (the handling change is in the order of what you'd expect from LOWERING it 2").
Interesting...I already have a 2" MFC spacer lift, so I'm going to have to delve into this a little more. Thanks for the info...😎
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
339 Posts
No worries - I was definitely after firmer rear as well as the lift tho so went 50/50 like this. Another part of my deciding to go this way was a review by an Aussie car magazine where they took a few different vehicles out bush and concluded by saying the TH held its own fine but ended up noticeably permanently sagged in the rear after that trip over very rugged terrain + heavily loaded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flybynightcru

·
Registered
2019 Trailhawk Elite 2.0T Olive Green Metallic Pearlcoat
Joined
·
4,938 Posts
No worries - I was definitely after firmer rear as well as the lift tho so went 50/50 like this. Another part of my deciding to go this way was a review by an Aussie car magazine where they took a few different vehicles out bush and concluded by saying the TH held its own fine but ended up noticeably permanently sagged in the rear after that trip over very rugged terrain + heavily loaded.
Ya, I haven't seen any sagging in the rear yet. I have a loading system that keeps my tongue weight at about 350lbs. I'd like to be able to comfortably, and safely put a little more on the hitch, or in the rear cargo area if I ever need to...😎
 

·
Registered
2015 AD2 Latitude, 3.2
Joined
·
577 Posts
[QUOTE="Trailfirst, post: 2981704, member: Are you guys even looking at those videos??

[/QUOTE]

yes the Wrangler video says this is not a tuner and it makes it FEAL like it’s quicker.
Wrangler is not a Cherokee and the other videos do not use Cherokees. So there is no direct before and after comparison of a KL .
Even if these devices allow you to put the power to the ground that the vehicles are already making in a quicker fashion by eliminating any throttle input delay going from 0 to 100% throttle input, (you can even call it a reaction time) that can be done by getting into the throttle with your foot before launch.

edit: he also said in Wrangler video that you will feel nothing different when the vehicle is already moving ,only in stop and go driving , so again it’s just fooling where the throttle position is at an idle/stop.
 

·
Registered
2020 4x4 3.2L/K&N[RPM] CAI/S3 Chip/Custom Exh/2" Lift/Front Strut Bar/Cust Ext Paint:Vinyl Mods
Joined
·
12 Posts
Again, yep I'm inclined to be VERY sceptical about the claim that this OBD Plugin type thing could be doing anything - indeed backed by what's by any gauge solid technical info explaining why it can't do anything - but the guy is stating he's seen some kind of effect and I'll say again that first hand experience (if it's honestly stated) means a whole lot. He's otherwise flatout lying.

Those power figures are definitely clearly not correct so that's a big hit in terms of credibility for sure...

As far as the technical info goes, I've been told the Sprint Booster plugged into my TH does nothing useful - when in fact it transforms the vehicle - and I've had assertions thrown at me based on technical expertise that are flatout INCORRECT (by people who haven't actually used / tested the device) - ie. claims it just opens to 100% at half pedal etc. which are WRONG - it's fully proportional and clearly more sophisticated than the armchair experts realise or are willing to believe ("the eyes are useless, when the mind is blind")

Having said that, I'm noticing the "Sprint Boost" term there in the title of this device which in the first instance bothers me because there's a proper and different / unassociated device actually called "Sprint Booster" so someone using such a similar name or terminology the way these Viper people are doesn't come across as particularly honest to me - and does the use of that term mean this thing is just a pedal signal conditioner? (albeit somehow achieved thru the OBD port??). If the latter then that's the explanation why the guy feels an improvement in performance - because improving pedal response WILL give an improvement in seat of the pants performance perception.

A final thought as well: yes locked PCM means you can't alter the program, but does it stop modification or conditioning of sensor signals? - which is what I've generally understood plugins to normally do anyway. Even if that's all the plugin does - ie. fools the "locked" ecu into thinking the coolant and/or inlet air temps are very low so richening mixture and bumping up the timing - and that yields a bit of extra grunt and improves the feel of the drive - then surely mission accomplished?.
"None of our men are 'experts.' We have most unfortunately found it necessary to get rid of a man as soon as he thinks himself an expert because no one ever considers himself expert if he really knows his job. A man who knows a job sees so much more to be done than he has done, that he is always pressing forward and never gives up an instant of thought to how good and how efficient he is. Thinking always ahead, thinking always of trying to do more, brings a state of mind in which nothing is impossible. The moment one gets into the 'expert' state of mind a great number of things become impossible."

Henry Ford

I'll be the first one raising my hand to say I do not and never will know everything about ANY subject matter there is. That's honestly the thought process behind most of the highest intellectual and most successful people who've ever walked this earth.

A TRUE "smart" individual realizes he no where near knows everything about aby subject matter and thusly never ceases to chase after knowledge and is continually learning

You so called self claimed "experts" are more than welcome to come to Ohio and find out how little you actually know and (just like the rest of us), how much you can actually learn from everyone around you if you simply knock down the wall of arrogance and self praise you obviously have surrounding you.

Also, the mere fact that the OEM uses the term "locked" regarding the ECM's dictates that "unlocking" is able to be performed. AKA NO lock is "unlockable". Otherwise they would have used the term "non reprogram-able" or "permanent" etc.

So just because YOU don't know how to have the ECU unlocked or YOU'VE never heard of it being possible DOESN'T have ANY effect on the reality that it can be.

LOL it's so easy to guess some people's age range when they write ridiculous posts pretending to be so called self claimed "experts" on things when even the creator of the automobile himself states no one is an expert on anything in life.

Only people with low levels of maturity and none to extremely little REAL life experience (FYI age is a #, not an indicator or maturity or REAL life experience) ever are so bold or so arrogant to ever think or believe they know everything about anything.

lol if you did, you wouldn't be wasting your time being on here daily, you'd be living on your private island surrounded by mountains of cash that you've made from being the one person whose ever walked this planet who knew everything there is to possibly know about any subject matter.

But again, if any FACT I have given you, any of you self proclaimed "experts" are more than welcome to come to Ohio and prove me wrong or prove me to be a "flatout lying" person.

Maybe afterwards we can have a beer and learn from each other some other things on Jeeps, cars in general or anything else in life that we do not currently know that the other does.

🤝
 

·
Registered
Blackbird 2019_Limited_4x4 Blk_on_Blk Tech_Lux_Nav
Joined
·
1,500 Posts
...
Also, the mere fact that the OEM uses the term "locked" regarding the ECM's dictates that "unlocking" is able to be performed. AKA NO lock is "unlockable". Otherwise they would have used the term "non reprogram-able" or "permanent" etc.
...
🤝
It also implies there is a 'KEY', if one doesn't have the 'key', doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;)
 

·
Registered
2020 4x4 3.2L/K&N[RPM] CAI/S3 Chip/Custom Exh/2" Lift/Front Strut Bar/Cust Ext Paint:Vinyl Mods
Joined
·
12 Posts
It also implies there is a 'KEY', if one doesn't have the 'key', doesn't mean it doesn't exist. ;)
You are correct. But having already stated that it can in fact be unlocked, and having stated that the chip tuner I run is in fact working and showing provable gains that anyone is welcome to come to Ohio attempt to disprove, I assumed people were smart enough to realize that "implied" the ECM is unlocked.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
3,927 Posts
I'll be the first one raising my hand to say I do not and never will know everything about ANY subject matter there is. That's honestly the thought process behind most of the highest intellectual and most successful people who've ever walked this earth.
You got that right and have proven that twice.

A TRUE "smart" individual realizes he no where near knows everything about aby subject matter and thusly never ceases to chase after knowledge and is continually learning
Well I am smart, and I am smarter than you when it comes to KL tuning because unlike you I actually have tuned the engine and transmission in my vehicle and have been testing different settings for almost 3 years.

ou so called self claimed "experts" are more than welcome to come to Ohio and find out how little you actually know and (just like the rest of us), how much you can actually learn from everyone around you if you simply knock down the wall of arrogance and self praise you obviously have surrounding you.
Oh so thinly veiled threats are the thing to do now? I don't need to go anywhere. It's the internet and people post information online because they can't be multiple places at once. Also HP tuners does remote tuning so you never need to actually see who's tuning your vehicle should you get a remote tune. I'm not praising myself merely stating facts. You haven't produced a SINGLE measurable data point to prove anything you've posted.

Also, the mere fact that the OEM uses the term "locked" regarding the ECM's dictates that "unlocking" is able to be performed. AKA NO lock is "unlockable". Otherwise they would have used the term "non reprogram-able" or "permanent" etc.
Sure tell me how you unlock a PCM then. Doesn't matter if you could unlock your 2020 Cherokee PCM, without any aftermarket support from HP Tuners you still can't tune or change parameters. Example Certain model years of Jeep Compass/Patriot are supported and some are not. Some years without locked PCM's are supported but guess what, when you try read the PCM it simply fails. So again your 2020 isn't supported so whether or not the PCM is locked or unlocked is irrelevant

But again, if any FACT I have given you, any of you self proclaimed "experts" are more than welcome to come to Ohio and prove me wrong or prove me to be a "flatout lying" person.
So according to you, a FACT is something you type in an online message but doesn't actually contain any measurable data point.

1. You said you dyno'd your cherokee. Where is your dyno sheet? You never took a picture of it, no video?
2. You never actually posted any baseline performance numbers, but somehow said it worked.

Here's some data for you. Before and after modifications for 2 3.2 Cherokees



I have pictures and videos of all the runs referenced in those time slips. That would measurable data points.

Quite simply you have claimed your vehicle made x amount of horsepower but back it up other than saying it did.

I on the other hand can say I gained approx 50hp from the modifications I made but I didnt go to a dyno. I just raced my vehicle stock and modified and knew how much it weighed for each run and can roughly calculate out how much power I gained. Then again how else can I explain that my 1/4 mile ET dropped 1.22s and my trap speed went UP by 5.22mph. Just magic right?

Your entire post was a joke, I'm not ever coming to Ohio because I don't need to. You have already proven yourself to be rather unreliable when it comes to posting factual data to prove your performance figures. Me on the other hand, multiple threads around here showing how tuning actually works and the gains to be made. Case and point, the 2014 Cherokee that my friend owns. 2.2mph and 0.6s in the 1/4 mile difference between the stock tune and a 91 octane custom tune with no other changes. Show me data like that....but I know you won't
 

·
Registered
2019 Trailhawk Elite 2.0T Olive Green Metallic Pearlcoat
Joined
·
4,938 Posts
The PCM is unlocked with the "Magic Key" of course!!!😂🤣😎
Outerwear Musician String instrument Eyewear Entertainment
 

·
Registered
2020 4x4 3.2L/K&N[RPM] CAI/S3 Chip/Custom Exh/2" Lift/Front Strut Bar/Cust Ext Paint:Vinyl Mods
Joined
·
12 Posts
The PCM is unlocked with the "Magic Key" of course!!!😂🤣😎
View attachment 216795
Are you really this ****ing stupid or are you just attempting to be a smartass? Or is it you truly know jackshit about the things you run your mouth on an on about on here?

Try Google if you don't know yourself. You can literally pull up shop upon shop upon shop in any state in the country that is capable of unlocking the ecu/pcm installed on any vehicle on the road. Call them up, ask them. Unless they think you're a ****ing douche they'll charge you anywhere from $150 - $300 depending on where you live and the name on the billboard

Nose Hair Human Jaw Gesture
 
221 - 240 of 247 Posts
Top