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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
227 264 stock (didn’t record)

240 284 k&n, mishimoto charge pipe 7hp 12tq, 3” Magnaflow catback, k&n filter, 8hp & 10tq

255.64 311.8 VR Tune box stage 7

15hp & 26.8tq

Translation————

1/4 mile 15.23 stock/14.61 now

270hp 295tq stock

285hp 317tq bolt ons +15hp +22tq

304hp 348tq VR Tune +19 hp +31q
Total: +34hp +53tq

Now once the Jeep gets off the line, it switches to FWD. Couldn’t do that safely on a dyno, but 10% is average. So if this were a true FWD the tune would have made 22hp/35tq, with only 91 octane available here, w/ rec 93 I see the claimed 29hp/44tq. Which means I’m feeling about 334hp & 382tq in FWD mode, and man do I feel it! A 5.7 Jeep Grand Cherokee rated less torque on the same dyno and only 30 more hp. But I do get the occasional TCM signal error and lean condition code that clear after pulling over and restarting. Really annoying. But any drive under 50 miles no issues, but work commute of 60 miles and 60 back I just set it to 0, or plug it. Maybe Tyler will let me borrow his reader so I can hp tune that away. What I’d do think is cool is that a 3.2 can be tuned to beat a stock 2.0T. What I don’t find cool is the extra lbs we have to carry with the 4x4 system. I do however love 4x4s. Also just got the new Grand Cherokee L, 0-60 6.7 not bad for something so big. Got my mom a compass, Jeep4life!
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So let me get this right. You replaced your exhaust system? Also the mishimoto pipe must have been the intercooler one from the Wrangler since there is no other one that fits on the Cherokee, right? Your numbers 334hp & 382tq in FWD mode seem a little suspect to me.

I also looked at the VR tuned website and it gives me several red flags. Things like the box they sell says 2013-2019 cherokee 2.0 instead of 2019+, no downloadable instructions specifically for Cherokee installation, no dyno paperwork on the website, etc.

I'm no expert on calculating dyno hp/tq vs crank hp/tq but this seems promising. My goal was to get my cherokee to 300hp, 325tq and I was pretty sure that was achievable.

Only concern I have is that torque value. The transmission is only rated for 350tq (PTU might be even less) hence why being anywhere close to that number scares me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
So let me get this right. You replaced your exhaust system? Also the mishimoto pipe must have been the intercooler one from the Wrangler since there is no other one that fits on the Cherokee, right? Your numbers 334hp & 382tq in FWD mode seem a little suspect to me.

I also looked at the VR tuned website and it gives me several red flags. Things like the box they sell says 2013-2019 cherokee 2.0 instead of 2019+, no downloadable instructions specifically for Cherokee installation, no dyno paperwork on the website, etc.

I'm no expert on calculating dyno hp/tq vs crank hp/tq but this seems promising. My goal was to get my cherokee to 300hp, 325tq and I was pretty sure that was achievable.

Only concern I have is that torque value. The transmission is only rated for 350tq (PTU might be even less) hence why being anywhere close to that number scares me.
So Tyler is pro on this, but just like him I’m working with hp tuners to get that TCM torque unlocked. I will post the product information once I have it done and streamlined. And yes I was offered a sponsorship from mishimoto as I worked with dealership and found charge pipe for both the wrangler and ours matched, installed it and it’s proven dyno to work. Have a shop do it though, it took me 3 hours to complete. Or if you want the vr tune box, just skip the mishimoto and you’ll have no issues or lights as I did, as I’m pushing the limits. Also when our Jeep are above a certain speed and in auto settings you will be in FWD mode and yes at the engine you will see with all my mods plus this 330/380ish (at engine)on setting 7 only, as-which triggers TCM limit code and lean code, 6 and 5 I never have an issue and on dyno only a few hp less. Torque under 350, but you have to understand, I have a complete 3” exhaust system, mishimoto, step colder ngk plugs, and k&n that got me to those numbers.
they also offer a flash tune which is much more optimal, but they have to unlock the ECU. When I dyno’d it at apocalypse Tuning it had to be placed in dyno mode or sport mode which engages a 60/40 power split, so I’m at 305/348 when all 4 tires engaged in sport mode. When I’m in auto I gain back that 10% drive train loss and that’s when torque limits are to high, 334hp/382tq. It actually spins the tires at any speed below 25mph, until 4WD engages. But when I dial it back down for long road trips to setting 5, hp drops a few, torque a lot more. I would honestly do a flash unless your still under warranty like I am, but just get your ecu unlocked 1st. I would also suggest switching the plug stock plug when going throughout certain states. As any mods to our ecu are deemed illegal in some places. I’m also working a sponsorship with super chips that will be much more easygoing.
 

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So Tyler is pro on this, but just like him I’m working with hp tuners to get that TCM torque unlocked. I will post the product information once I have it done and streamlined. And yes I was offered a sponsorship from mishimoto as I worked with dealership and found charge pipe for both the wrangler and ours matched, installed it and it’s proven dyno to work. Have a shop do it though, it took me 3 hours to complete. Or if you want the vr tune box, just skip the mishimoto and you’ll have no issues or lights as I did, as I’m pushing the limits. Also when our Jeep are above a certain speed and in auto settings you will be in FWD mode and yes at the engine you will see with all my mods plus this 330/380ish (at engine)on setting 7 only, as-which triggers TCM limit code and lean code, 6 and 5 I never have an issue and on dyno only a few hp less. Torque under 350, but you have to understand, I have a complete 3” exhaust system, mishimoto, step colder ngk plugs, and k&n that got me to those numbers.
they also offer a flash tune which is much more optimal, but they have to unlock the ECU. When I dyno’d it at apocalypse Tuning it had to be placed in dyno mode or sport mode which engages a 60/40 power split, so I’m at 305/348 when all 4 tires engaged in sport mode. When I’m in auto I gain back that 10% drive train loss and that’s when torque limits are to high, 334hp/382tq. It actually spins the tires at any speed below 25mph, until 4WD engages. But when I dial it back down for long road trips to setting 5, hp drops a few, torque a lot more. I would honestly do a flash unless your still under warranty like I am, but just get your ecu unlocked 1st. I would also suggest switching the plug stock plug when going throughout certain states. As any mods to our ecu are deemed illegal in some places. I’m also working a sponsorship with super chips that will be much more easygoing.
I don't think colder plugs are needed with the hp gains we are looking at on the cherokee. But I am no expert on this stuff.

Are you saying your mishimoto is causing the codes? I didn't hear about any codes from the wrangler guys. I would think it is the VR tune box causing the codes. The catch can on the wrangler causes a lot of codes so I was not going to do that. Plus there is not a lot of blow-by anyway.

Everyone with a 2.0 is still under warranty. I will have one of the first out of warranty (Feb 2023) since mine was one of the first few made in the pilot production plant.
 

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Well you have some numbers, which is good they are kind of all over the place but I'd like to see the bottom of the dynosheet to see the specifics of the run.

So Tyler is pro on this, but just like him I’m working with hp tuners to get that TCM torque unlocked
Thanks for the kind words. Forgetting anything about the PCM (engine side of things) the TCM (transmission) has always been unlocked on every Cherokee built. The only catch is 2018+ requires a security mode bypass installed for the programming. There should be no reason why you can't plug in a HP Tuners MPVI2 and read the TCM, you can read from the OBD2 ports without the security module bypass, it's only need for the flashing of the tune.

Also when our Jeep are above a certain speed and in auto settings you will be in FWD mode
This is wrong, the vehicle is in 4x4 mode far more often than it's in FWD mode especially when driven in a "sporty fashion"

Example......here is a run in Auto mode but full throttle


Front to rear coupling torque is when power is being sent to the rear, any type of WOT from any speed will cause the vehicle to send power to the rear wheels.


Ignoring everything else, you need to get a TCM read off your vehicle and send it to HP tuners for definition files, the selec terrain modes do not change the torque limits. I'm willing to bet everything is hung up on torque management right now.

Is this VR box a piggyback tuner?
 

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I don't think colder plugs are needed with the hp gains we are looking at on the cherokee. But I am no expert on this stuff.

Are you saying your mishimoto is causing the codes? I didn't hear about any codes from the wrangler guys. I would think it is the VR tune box causing the codes. The catch can on the wrangler causes a lot of codes so I was not going to do that. Plus there is not a lot of blow-by anyway.

Everyone with a 2.0 is still under warranty. I will have one of the first out of warranty (Feb 2023) since mine was one of the first few made in the pilot production plant.
I guess I’m unfortunately the 1st out of warranty then in this forum. Hit 60,000 yesterday on my 2.0 2019, also yes and no. So on setting 7 the codes activated because everything I have up to date supports lean mixture, charge pipe, high flow filter, 3” catback, and the vr tune box which adds boost (air) at specific rpm via voltage alterations. The stock sensors can respond up to a certain amount of air by adding fuel for the 14:1, or 12:1 under WOT. But due to me not being able to add fuel for a more rich mixture I hit that parameter on 7 but not 5, which still make great power. Or I can leave the setting 7 and put back in the OEM air filter and problem never occurs. As for the other code, the TCM torque is a combination of all mods, being in fwd mode(auto), and dumping the pedal at low speeds. Or just driving a long distance in 7 and it reads short term and long term fuel trims do not match(60-100miles). That’s when I break that threshold, which I will soon remedy with hp tuners so the tranny can allow more torque without getting irritated.
 

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I guess I’m unfortunately the 1st out of warranty then in this forum. Hit 60,000 yesterday on my 2.0 2019, also yes and no. So on setting 7 the codes activated because everything I have up to date supports lean mixture, charge pipe, high flow filter, 3” catback, and the vr tune box which adds boost (air) at specific rpm via voltage alterations. The stock sensors can respond up to a certain amount of air by adding fuel for the 14:1, or 12:1 under WOT. But due to me not being able to add fuel for a more rich mixture I hit that parameter on 7 but not 5, which still make great power. Or I can leave the setting 7 and put back in the OEM air filter and problem never occurs. As for the other code, the TCM torque is a combination of all mods, being in fwd mode(auto), and dumping the pedal at low speeds. Or just driving a long distance in 7 and it reads short term and long term fuel trims do not match(60-100miles). That’s when I break that threshold, which I will soon remedy with hp tuners so the tranny can allow more torque without getting irritated.
Sounds like the intercooler pipe would be fine then as long as you keep the boost down. If I remember correctly. a video I watched of Diablosport tuning a JL with 2.0 they said that the turbo can't provide any more boost with a tune. They have to instead play with different settings. So you must have a little more boost due to the less restrictive filter. Where do you come up with 14:1 or 12:1? I would not take the word of the piggyback tuner for that, it seems high.

Yeah I forgot about people that drive like crazy. 60000+ miles = no warranty. I am at 4years 3 months and 22000 miles.
 

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Sounds like the intercooler pipe would be fine then as long as you keep the boost down. If I remember correctly. a video I watched of Diablosport tuning a JL with 2.0 they said that the turbo can't provide any more boost with a tune. They have to instead play with different settings. So you must have a little more boost due to the less restrictive filter. Where do you come up with 14:1 or 12:1? I would not take the word of the piggyback tuner for that, it seems high.

Yeah I forgot about people that drive like crazy. 60000+ miles = no warranty. I am at 4years 3 months and 22000 miles.&
Yeah I drive 120 miles to work and back California, it’s a lot but retire this year so soon back to normal. Oh I got boost, 20-30 more torque, boast was 9.8 went to 12.1. Or almost double that when in FWD mode. But I doubt it goes anymore without super expensive modifications. Then fuel ration is what I saw on the labor dyno 14:1 to 12/1 under serious load .I’m sponsoring super chips, will have something soon that’s bettering
 

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Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
Nah man it’s me, finally got you that dyno proof, also couldn’t remember old password. Dude your extremely knowledgeable, how do you not know that auto defaults to FWD until other conditions exist. Here, take a look.
 

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You never actually showed me the bottom of the dyno sheet......you know with the A/F ratios and the notes, post the full dyno sheet.

How do I know, 8 years of testing and playing with them......again maybe you should read what I post on this message board.



That's how I know, complete details facts and data and breaking down and explaining everything, something you need to learn on doing
 

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You never actually showed me the bottom of the dyno sheet......you know with the A/F ratios and the notes, post the full dyno sheet.

How do I know, 8 years of testing and playing with them......again maybe you should read what I post on this message board.



That's how I know, complete details facts and data and breaking down and explaining everything, something you need to learn on doing
I don’t have a/f but it was lean, all my mods support air, not fuel. I hope with the ho reader I can reverse all that and it’s not a bust. Gains were significant, but there’s a fine line between going fast and going safe. I was just gonna pay you to borrow yours, read TCU and ecu, send that to hp, see if they can up torque limits and bump fuel. If it doesn’t read, which they stated may happen, then I have to send off ecu and TCM for unlock to superchips. I accepted a sponsorship with them like I did with mishimoto for the charge pipe fab. But until something easier comes out, vr tune box and the bolt ons is all she will get. And superchips is still deep in development
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
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Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
But I’m active drive one system, so yea almost always FWD, then when I spin the front tires 4WD takes over in auto. Your a full on trail hawk so I’d say maybe your more 4x4, never looked into that, but I can fell the lull of sport mode to auto as fwd vehicles always feel more powerful than they actually are, but there is a lot less drivetrain loss if I feather the peddle off the line. 0-100 was slower launching in sport mode with 60-40 split vs launching in auto.
can I pay you to borrow your reader? I can send you money. I really want to climb down that hp tuner rabbit hole to unleash more power. View attachment 218538 View attachment 218539 View attachment 218540 View attachment 218541 View attachment 218542 View attachment 218543 View attachment 218544 View attachment 218545
Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
Other guy in the thread just someone like I was looking for just specific power bump. Don’t know him, but he’s in the Cherokee club for sure.
Please explain to me how you think you are in FWD all the time, unless you are getting service 4wd messages you aren't. If you aren't getting those messages and you aren't getting power to the rear wheels then you have either damaged your 4x4 system or it's not working correctly.

Are there 2 different people posting in this thread or do you have multiple accounts.
but hp tuners states if I don’t get read on TCU and ecu I’ll be out of luck. I think stellantis makes both the 3.2 and 2.0? Shouldn’t be an issue, I have to send that read off to them if I want to unlock more power. Or enhance the vr tune box to max potential
 

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But I’m active drive one system, so yea almost always FWD, then when I spin the front tires 4WD takes over in auto. Your a full on trail hawk so I’d say maybe your more 4x4, never looked into that, but I can fell the lull of sport mode to auto as fwd vehicles always feel more powerful than they actually are, but there is a lot less drivetrain loss if I feather the peddle off the line. 0-100 was slower launching in sport mode with 60-40 split vs launching in auto.
can I pay you to borrow your reader? I can send you money. I really want to climb down that hp tuner rabbit hole to unleash more power
The vehicle is always in awd mode at low speeds and large throttle inputs it's only even in FWD mode at speed and with little throttle input, if your vehicle does not behave this way you have a problem with the PTU or RDM. It doesn't matter what AWD system you have, they are all programmed the same way. Plus doesn't matter if the vehicle is a trailhawk, when it's not in 4x4 low it functions just like a ADI vehicle.

Also absolutely none of the attachments you posted worked.
 

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The vehicle is always in awd mode at low speeds and large throttle inputs it's only even in FWD mode at speed and with little throttle input, if your vehicle does not behave this way you have a problem with the PTU or RDM. It doesn't matter what AWD system you have, they are all programmed the same way. Plus doesn't matter if the vehicle is a trailhawk, when it's not in 4x4 low it functions just like a ADI vehicle.

Also absolutely none of the attachments you posted worked.
Odd it was just pictures from the website that talks about how the torque splits up, sand/mud I think was 50/50, snow 40/60, 60/40 sport and so on. But everyone I ever spoke to states they fwd biased in auto, and also like you stated, when at speed. Unless the tcs see’s a need to adjust it stays fwd biased. Which is why, I think, when you alter to other settings, even sport (w/ enhanced throttle response), it doesn’t pull as hard when using passing gear at wot. But that’s not what I need help with, I have no issues, other than a bit lean cause multiple mods for air and nothing for fuel other than running 94 octane mix to keep it safe. I’ll get with apocalypse tuning in my home town, see if I can get that a/f that’s always at the bottom. But it will probably just say what I already know, and what my p2173 is telling me. Need more fuel, I would think installing a wideband o2 could fix this, as it did in the veloster N forums. So I guess me renting your reader for $$, is not an option on the table?
 

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So all these people "speaking" about it.....they have verified via monitoring via the DTCM that all my data is wrong? I don't work on what people say and here say I go on facts and data. There is no fancy torque split its 0 to 50% to the rear, you can't have more torque to rear than the front its physically impossible.
As for renting my MPVI2, you've spend how much on your vehicle to where you can't afford 300$ that's all you need. It's also an OBD2 scanner and can be used on multiple vehicles so it's really am investment . By the time I shipped from Canada it would probably already be a third of the price of simply buying it.
 

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So all these people "speaking" about it.....they have verified via monitoring via the DTCM that all my data is wrong? I don't work on what people say and here say I go on facts and data. There is no fancy torque split its 0 to 50% to the rear, you can't have more torque to rear than the front its physically impossible.
As for renting my MPVI2, you've spend how much on your vehicle to where you can't afford 300$ that's all you need. It's also an OBD2 scanner and can be used on multiple vehicles so it's really am investment . By the time I shipped from Canada it would probably already be a third of the price of simply buying it.
No worries thanks anyways, but this is posted from the Jeep engineers themselves on the 60-40 40-60.
Car Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Land vehicle
Car Automotive parking light Tire Wheel Land vehicle
 
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